SAR-H hits the buffers

[sniperUK]

Looks like the Sea King will be around for a while yet:rolleyes:

From Todays FT....

A possible breach of propriety over bidding rules has forced ministers to call an abrupt halt to talks on a £6bn ($9.4bn) privatisation of the UK’s search and rescue helicopter force, hours before a planned announcement to press on with the deal. Philip Hammond, transport secretary, said he suspended plans to proceed after the Soteria consortium, the government’s preferred bidder, informed the Ministry of Defence “of a possible issue” in connection with its bid.

Two senior Whitehall figures told the Financial Times information – given to the MoD within the past 48 hours – related to a possible infringement of procurement rules, specifically with regard to standards of conduct. Inquiries are continuing into the consortium’s engagement with government since the bidding process began in 2006. “In the circumstances it is not appropriate for us to proceed with the planned announcement until the status of this issue has been clarified,” Mr Hammond said in a Commons statement.

The decision is the latest of several setbacks for the controversial search and rescue project, which is one of the government’s biggest planned privatisations. Labour said the suspension offered a chance to examine other options for delivering the service. “There needs to be transparency over this and the government must use this time to explore better value-for-money alternatives,” said Jim Murphy, shadow defence secretary.

S-92 or Merlin in yellow or red and grey anyone:cool

[raddger]

Well not all of the HM1s are being upgraded to HM2 standard so there will be a few spare airframes kicking about...

Cant quite see it in bright yellow however - the ones in primer yellow look garish enough!

[chally2]

Merlin in yellow or red and grey pretty pleeeese:D

[COASTIE75]

S-92 or Merlin in yellow or red and grey anyone:cool

Hopefully not - according to one crew at Lossiemouth, they dont want the Merlin and have been holding out for the S-92 for years now. The reason? The Merlin is TOO powerful downdraft wise, making rescue of cragfast climbers or people in the water a real concern. Yes, the Canadians use them, but its a completely different set up over there, with the ranges involved for most SAR missions - this again from a Canadian SAR pilot (15 hour transit to rescue an iceflow bound Inuit with only a mother polar bear and 2 cubs for company!:eek:)

With any luck, this will all get sorted out and soon - the new S-92s that were being provided are a step above capability wise the current MCA S-92s - which have incidentally already been promised to someone very close to you, Sniper.....;)

[shuttle]

More problems for this project......!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12389512

How much is this costing......

:( Shuttle

[sniperUK]

Well it looks like the Sea King will soldier on for a few more years yet, it really does need replacing though but with what.

Merlin, too big and powerful.
S-92, no 360 radar and has gearbox problems.
AB-214 as used in Cyprus, short range, low capability.
HH-60 Jayhawk, very restricted cabin space.
AW-139 too small, ok for daylight ,short range.
Cougar/Super Puma ,known to be top heavy and again no 360 radar but especially with the EC725 version great capability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_EC725
If we could afford to replace the Puma force with these as well it would be nice.

[Max Reheat]

Well it looks like the Sea King will soldier on for a few more years yet, it really does need replacing though but with what.

Merlin, too big and powerful.
S-92, no 360 radar and has gearbox problems.
AB-214 as used in Cyprus, short range, low capability.
HH-60 Jayhawk, very restricted cabin space.
AW-139 too small, ok for daylight ,short range.
Cougar/Super Puma ,known to be top heavy and again no 360 radar but especially with the EC725 version great capability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_EC725
If we could afford to replace the Puma force with these as well it would be nice.

I often wonder that in these 'what shall we replace it with' type situations whether the simplest and most cost effective solution isn't just to build more of the same.

Yes its an old design without the latest squidgets, but it exists and does exactly what it says on the tin, there are no new design costs, no prolonged into service costs (an MOD speciality :rolleyes:), no retraining of ground or aircrew required, the spares inventory exists, generates UK jobs to build 'em and looks fab in yellow, girlfriend! ;) (sorry came over all Gok Wan then :o) :D

So simple it'd never happen.

[sniperUK]

I often wonder that in these 'what shall we replace it with' type situations whether the simplest and most cost effective solution isn't just to build more of the same.

Yes its an old design without the latest squidgets, but it exists and does exactly what it says on the tin, there are no new design costs, no prolonged into service costs (an MOD speciality :rolleyes:), no retraining of ground or aircrew required, the spares inventory exists, generates UK jobs to build 'em and looks fab in yellow, girlfriend! ;) (sorry came over all Gok Wan then :o) :D

So simple it'd never happen.

There is an option to upgrade the SKs ,Carson blades, glass cockpit, uprated engines etc, problem is the last time this happened ,Chinook HC.3, it was a total dissaster. New builds might be an option if Wastelands still have the jigs etc.

[Max Reheat]

There is an option to upgrade the SKs ,Carson blades, glass cockpit, uprated engines etc, problem is the last time this happened ,Chinook HC.3, it was a total dissaster.

Indeed :mad: and best avoided.

New builds might be an option if Wastelands still have the jigs etc.

I bet they don't :( that would be far too foresighted. Still be cheaper to make new jigs though I bet, woods and trees spring to mind though...

[raddger]

If my memory serves me right, the Sea King Line was removed to make way for Apache build so who knows where it is now!

[Max Reheat]

If my memory serves me right, the Sea King Line was removed to make way for Apache build so who knows where it is now!

Beans cans?

[DCRanger]

News article here. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/8310344/MoD-halts-helicopter-deal-as-police-probe-irregularities.html)

[COASTIE75]

I fear there was something crushingly inevitable about all this, its all a bit demoralising :(

As for replacements, well, I guess we'll find out in time. Despite the ongoing issues with the S-92, the crews like them and they are extremely capable - R-102 from Sumburgh clocked up 170 + knots on the way out to the Gryphon incident last Friday, with a tail wind of course:LOL: Still, it made 120 knots on the way back in against the wind - which is still faster than a Sea king/S-61!

Super Puma variants are also very capable, very broadly similar to the S-92 in many ways. The BP Jigsaw SAR aircraft are doing good work out there too.

Nothing against the Sea Kings, they were and still are very capable as well, but it is time for a change. Their serviceability issues are getting very serious and reliability is a real concern .

[Red 2]

Interesting article recently on how armed forces around the world are being forced to look at Sikorsky/Westland Sea King life extensions.AW evidently ready to relife BUT only a desirable option if capital not available for a modern replacement. Sea King much loved but S-92 or EC-275 derivative much more capable.

Suspect bean counters will prevail...

[chally2]

problem is the last time this happened ,Chinook HC.3, it was a total dissaster.

Don't let the MoD get involved and it will be fine, the MoD and military equipment don't mix:wacko: :LOL: