Vulcan News

[minter]

In me local rag today, Heriatage Lottery Fund has granted an application from a Felicity Irwin from Wimborne Dorset for 2.7 million to get XH558 back into the air she hopes to achieve this by 2006

[planejunky]

The Vulcan is an interesting one. I'm probably sticking my head over the parapit when I say I'm still not sure that flying such a huge warbird is such a good idea.

I'm very worried that if something was to happen to the Vulcan at an airshow, the political fallout, along with presure from the anti's could have the possibility of destroying the entire British warbird scene. The fact that over 2 million pounds of public money is also tied up in the project, would add further fuel to the anti historic aviation brigade.

Although there are two large warbirds in the shape of the Lancaster and B-17 regularly flying on the UK circuit, they are nowhere near the complexity of a Vulcan. Although I'm sure that the operator has discussed operations very thoroughly with the sponsors such as BAE Systems, and with the CAA, this is still a worrying factor.

Ok my kevlar body armour and helmet are suitably adjusted! What does everyone else think?

[NeilD]

I dont think that side of things will be an issue as the CAA will monitor pretty closely the way its operated.. and worrying about it crashing before its even back in one piece, well I'll leave that to the lot over on 'flypast' ;)

what I think will kill it off is the running costs.. I think its safe to say that none of the current 'warbirds' are operated at a 'profit' or even cover their costs from airshows - they rely on owners with deep pockets and enthusiam to keep 'em going.. and comapre the cost per hour for a Vulcan against a Spitfire, not just fuel but the maintenance as well.. Spitfires etc are pretty basic bits of kit really, just require a bit of TLC and a wipe with an oily rag now and again - well you know what I mean.. Vulcan is gonna be a whole different regime I suspect (my experience is commercial jets so i 'could' be wrong ;) ).. and Marshalls aren't going to do it for nothing.. and then theres the comment on the VTTS (or whatever they're now called) website about there being no facilities to repair/overhaul the engines.. I believe they have a couple of spare.. so what happens after the first 2 'birdstrikes'.. I'm sure VTTS or VOC have all this covered, but as I mentioned 'elsewhere' their communication with the outside world doesnt always fill you with confidence..
Neil.

[planejunky]

I dont think that side of things will be an issue as the CAA will monitor pretty closely the way its operated.. and worrying about it crashing before its even back in one piece, well I'll leave that to the lot over on 'flypast' ;)

what I think will kill it off is the running costs.. I think its safe to say that none of the current 'warbirds' are operated at a 'profit' or even cover their costs from airshows - they rely on owners with deep pockets and enthusiam to keep 'em going.. and comapre the cost per hour for a Vulcan against a Spitfire, not just fuel but the maintenance as well.. Spitfires etc are pretty basic bits of kit really, just require a bit of TLC and a wipe with an oily rag now and again - well you know what I mean.. Vulcan is gonna be a whole different regime I suspect (my experience is commercial jets so i 'could' be wrong ;) ).. and Marshalls aren't going to do it for nothing.. and then theres the comment on the VTTS (or whatever they're now called) website about there being no facilities to repair/overhaul the engines.. I believe they have a couple of spare.. so what happens after the first 2 'birdstrikes'.. I'm sure VTTS or VOC have all this covered, but as I mentioned 'elsewhere' their communication with the outside world doesnt always fill you with confidence..
Neil.

I remember the debate very well over "there", but despite him taking some flak over his issues, I and a few others thought Kev did bring up some very valid points.
I thought they had eleven zero houred Olympus engines, but yes it's a problem if there's nowhere to overhaul or service them. I agree with you about the cost issues involved. Sally B costs a fortune to run each season, and then after that, there's the winter overhaul. The loss of Mildenhall Air Fete from 2002 has hit them very hard but they have survived, and 2005 still sees them on the display circuit.

Finishing her display flying in 1992, it's pretty safe to say that the Vulcan pilots are going to need a serious refresher course by now, as are her ground crew. How are they going about providing that training, as it's doubtful that a simulator would exist.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see XH558 in the air again as I remember her displays in the 1980's and early 1990's, but she had a superb RAF engineering team behind her back then, can it all still be done to the same standard with 2006 cost levels? Elly struggles year in year out to keep Sally B in the air, and that's at half the cost of the Vulcan. Just the insurance alone must be a major obstacle in TVOC's plans, but as you rightly say, they must have it in hand. ;)

[spock1]

:) Think its fair to say that getting 558 back in the air will be one awesome achievement !! Lets hope it happens and all goes well. Hopefully those behind the scheme have done their homework which I am sure they have...... ;)

[NeilD]

ref the crew i'd have thourght that the CAA would treat it as they would a new type, one of their management/test pilots would fly it and produce a flying manual/pilots notes for it? at least its still recent enough for the RAF SOP's and experience to still be available..
I presume it'll be the same for when the Hawk75 turns up for OFMC.. I dunno if they just let them use the original 1940's pilots notes or if a CAA pilot flys it first and then produces a new document??
and with the BBMF, none of the 'fighter' pilots have flown a Spitfire till the first time they're sent solo.. :eek: They build up to it on similar types and use the pilots notes and experience of others.. likewise I would imagine the Vulcan crew would need current multi-engine large jet experience..
what may be more of an issue, once they are cleared, is keeping the crew currency up to date, as I'm sure that for financial reasons at least, flying hours will be at a premium.. also apparently there isn't a spare 'gear for the a/c so they wont want to be doing too many training circuits with multipul touch n goes.. :D again with the ground crew, operating procedures will be drawn-up, probably based on the RAF ones.?..experience isn't such an issue with it being operated in this role, they just follow the book :D - experience was more useful in a military environment where the groundcrew were under pressure to produce an aeroplane.. or in a commercial/airline world.. hopefully they wont see appearance at an airshow as being worth penning something off..
but none of it is insurmountable with the right people and possible more importantly the right amount of money... and I think its money that will be its downfall rather than any safety issue..

[NeilD]

I thought they had eleven zero houred Olympus engines, but yes it's a problem if there's nowhere to overhaul or service them.

just checked their website again... they've got 2 SETS of zero timed engines, not just 2 !! :o :D so thats 8 birdstrikes theyre allowed! :D
Neil

[planejunky]

just checked their website again... they've got 2 SETS of zero timed engines, not just 2 !! :o :D so thats 8 birdstrikes theyre allowed! :D
Neil

I hear the Tokinawa Suicide Seagull Squadron is preparing as we speak! :D :D Oops, was that in bad taste? Only jokin!:D