Chamberlains Plane

[Red Leader]

I was watching the doc. on tiv last night about Hitler and saw the famous clip of Chmaberlain getting out of his plane in 1938. Anyone know what type it was? Twin engine with a twin tail plane.

[maple 01]

Some version of the Locheed Electra?

http://www.bamuseum.com/images/large/30-40/30-40_16.jpg

[Craig]

I'd go along with that, it does look to have more than a passing resemblance to the Hudson. A Lockheed product for definate methinks.

[DCRanger]

Yes it was an Electra also famous as an aircraft that Howard Hughes flew around the world in. Later developed into the Hudson bomber.

[Av8tor]

A Lockheed Model 14-WF62 Super Electra. G-AFGN of British Airways, who operated a total of 9. Eight were ordered from Lockheed plus an ex-KLM machine. Five were later transfered to BOAC and 2 to the RAF for wartime service. Apparently the Japs had 30 plus built a further 119 themselves which caused confusion with RAAF Hudsons and KLMILM Model 14s early in the war.

Most interesting part was the footage of the aircraft. I was surprised that Churchill's bodyguard didn't shoot that Heinkel down with his pistol when their Flamingo was returning across the Channel, thereby saving the PM's life yet again!

Av8tor ;)

[Martin Bull]

I was watching the doc. on tiv last night about Hitler and saw the famous clip of Chmaberlain getting out of his plane in 1938.

The actual spot, I believe, is right by the entrance to the Little Chef at the Moto service area on the M4 at Heston.....

[Red Leader]

Thanks for all that useful information guys!
So was The Hudson essentially a milliyary version of the Electra?
I was in Texas recently visiting The Confederate Air Force Museum and they have a Lockeed Harpoon there done in blue naval colours. This too to me looks very similar to the Electra/Hudson. Would I alsdo be right in assuming that this was the same airframe again but just navalised?

[DCRanger]

The Hudson was a bit more than a "military version". A bit like comparing the comet with the Nimrod. It was fitted with a bomb and a turret amongst other things. The Hudson was in turn further developed to become the Ventura although not as successful. I suppose the Blenheim/Bisley comparison would fit.

The Harpoon was a further development for naval operations nearer to the Ventura than the Hudson.

[Red Leader]

Thanks DC. That kinda makes sense. Must have been a very well designed airframe then if it could be so well adapted!!

[Craig]

Not unusual in those times though! you only have to look at the incredible adaptivity of aircraft such as the DC-3 to realise that the airframes were a lot more rugged and adaptable than most things flying today!

[Agent X20]

Electra like Boeing 247 ( and DC3) were all about pre war airliners.. as in what would have happened if Adolph had stopped short of invading Poland..

Landplanes competing for the all important routes, the big boys of course being the seaplanes... why build and pay for tarmac..??

So war came and the Electra became the Hudson which in turn became the Ventura, the Harpoon... but what they had as types was range... and we needed planes in 1940 with range... planes to protect the convoys... The Hudson was a valiant soldier glamourised by Mr Cagney somewhat...but a good un...

By 1945 and the end of the war, the likes of the C54 and Connie made the Hudson/Electra uneconomical... there were thousands of C47's on the market.. :D

[Craig]

And several of those thousands of C-47s are still flying today! I seem to recall a couple of Air Atlantique's are war veterans, recall seeing in Aircraft Illustrated a while back a photo of a C-47 with Turboprop engines! Think it was working for the military of some African nation, but it says something for the durability of the type that it's clearly going to be in use for some time yet! Then of course there's the DC2.5, when a DC-3 was damaged in the Pacific Theatre and they couldn't get a replacement wing out the groundcrews took a wing of a DC-2 that was kicking about the airfield, spliced it onto the DC-3 and flew it quite successfullly like that for several weeks until a replacement arrived! Absolutely incredible that the thing flew at all, but a real testament to the ruggedness of the design!

[BSteinIPMS]

The Lockheed 10A Electra and Hudson were two very different aeroplanes, lads, although they looked similar. Two Web sites of interest:

http://www.flightjournal.com/FJ/articles/electra/electra4.asp

http://www.trains-n-planes.com/ocw/aid/hudson/index.htm

It was a Lockheed Model 14 (Hudson) that flew Neville Chamberlain to Munich to meet with Adolf Hitler in September, 1938.

[DCRanger]

.
Well Ok Electra isn't quite right, it was the Super Electra.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a28_1.html

To be precise it was the Super Electra that took Chamberlain to Munich rather than a Hudson. I believe that it was also this type of aircraft that was used by Sydney Cotton to take covert photographs over Germany prior to the outbreak of war. He later played a large part in the formation of RAF PRU units.

[DCRanger]

Forgot to say, definitely not a Hudson until it put on uniform and replaced the comfy seats with tools of the trade. :D

[BSteinIPMS]

Forgot to say, definitely not a Hudson until it put on uniform and replaced the comfy seats with tools of the trade. :D

Quite right. In fact, "Hudson" is the name the British gave the Lockheed Model 14 when they received it under lend-lease in a military configuration. Sounds like you know your aeroplanes. :D

[DCRanger]

I know a little and as they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing :D

I have fond memories as a teenager of the Airfix release of the Hudson. It seemed like a very unusual type at the time and likewise thew Mitchell. Now Corgi have released the Mitchell maybe one day in the distant future they will do the Hudson. A few schemes for various airforces would include RAF, RCAF, RAAF, /RNZAF, USAAF, and US Navy, China, Brazil, and Portugal. The RAF ones would of course include the almost obligatory white/grey/green scheme of Coastal Command as well as the brown/green camo.

Some pics of an airworthy Hudson in Australia here. (includes a couple of pics of their Wirraway.)

http://www.oldcmp.net/huds_1.html

[BSteinIPMS]

I have fond memories as a teenager of the Airfix release of the Hudson.
Yep, me too. Dandy little 1/72 job, albeit a bit heavy on the rivets. Never could get those dozens of clear windows in the nose to fit quite right. :( :D

[DCRanger]

Complete with a nice bit of box art. Hudson dropping depth charges over a Uboat. Hope Agent isn't listening - you know his feelings on such things :D

Was Airfix well known in the States?

[BSteinIPMS]

Complete with a nice bit of box art. Hudson dropping depth charges over a Uboat. Hope Agent isn't listening - you know his feelings on such things :D

Was Airfix well known in the States?
Yes, Airfix kits were in as plentiful a supply as Revell or Monogram, or even Aurora, for that matter.

Airfix's artist, Roy Cross, was responsible for selling many kits to impressionable young American boys.
Robert Taylor was well-known as well. Hope Agent doesn't cringe over this one. :eek: :D

[DCRanger]

Dangerous occupation working in subs. :D

[rmorley]

Further to the earlier answers, the a/c in question was owned by British Airways, a pre-war organisation that became part of BOAC in 1939.

Didn't it fly from Croydon? I know that "this" BA flew from Croydon, and that they previously used Lockheed L. 10s (several of which crashed).

Chamberlain's Lockheed L. 14 Electra won me £50 for an essay on Munich, so it is a subject dear to me!

[Agent X20]

Woudnt have been from Heathrow!!

Electra - Erharts plane...
Lockheed 14 different kettle of the fishes..

Dont worry.. despite a plethora of sub hunters, am still about.. Great White's most probably got a headache though..!

[maple 01]

Just in case no-one's mentioned it Chamberlin flew into Heston - now a service station on the M4!

http://www.photolondon.org.uk/assoc_pages/gunnersbury/gunnpics2.htm

Due to be London's main airport, but dodn't quite happen......

[G-force]

The actual spot, I believe, is right by the entrance to the Little Chef at the Moto service area on the M4 at Heston.....


...........before Martin pops in to say it! :D

[maple 01]

Oh well, I won't mention it them......

[BSteinIPMS]

.....and now, a final word from our sponsor: http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/hudson/hudson.shtml :D

[Agent X20]

Isnt there a Hudson still flying..?

[CKS1]

Isnt there a Hudson still flying..?

Mr Agent.

Hudson A16-112 is still flying with the Temora Aviation Museum in New South Wales.

www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/Hudson.cfm

Cheers CKS1

[DCRanger]

Isnt there a Hudson still flying..?
See post No 17.

[Agent X20]

Cheers DCR and Mr CKS.. I think shes lovely... feel a remake of Captains of the Clouds coming on..!!

[Graham]

Much of what was Heston aerodrome has been built on, but many of the roads have aviation related names ie, Brabazon Rd & Bleriot Rd.
Up until very recently one of Fairey aviation's old hangers was visible as it was this company that ran the airfield I beleive, their aircraft factory was in nearby Hayes, Middlesex.
On a personal note it was because of the Fairey aviation factory that my Great grandfather moved away from the East end of London to Hillingdon, he was a leather worker, cutter and stitcher and cycled all the way from Bow to Hayes to secure the job in the late twenties or early thirties. He apparently worked for Fairey for many years, unfortunatly he died before I was born so I could not get any first hand stories from him about aircraft production at the factory.

[Martin Bull]

That's a shame, Graham - he'd have had some interesting tales to tell. Coincidentally, there's a photo of the interior of Fairey's factory in the current issue of Aeroplane.

[DCRanger]

Cheers DCR and Mr CKS.. I think shes lovely... feel a remake of Captains of the Clouds coming on..!!
For those who haven't seen this film there is a good review here

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034578/

It also contains some of the politcal background to the times. Be interesting to see how Hollywood would cope with a remake :eek: