Signing Events

[Henry]

Hi Chaps,

After reading MB's comments regarding the AH event the other week, which unfortunately I couldn't attend due to work, I was just curious as to what other forum members thought about such events.
On the one hand I've been able to meet such wonderful personalities as 'Stapme' Stapleton and Geoffrey Wellum and many others as well as emptying the coffers on books and prints.
On the other I can't help thinking of childhood visits to zoos where groups peer through wire mesh at souls that don't really want to be there.
Personally, as I mentioned, I think just getting to meet, in the flesh, such wonderful people ( and I hate so say it but 'living history') is so worthwhile for somebody who wasn't even thought about at the time they were 'earning a living' and hopefully it has given me much to pass on to my children. That being said I still get that nagging feeling which won't go away.....


Your thoughts Gentleman....

[minter]

i for one wouldnt like to be gawped at like this, but these guys must know what these events are like,no one forces them do they?..and it might be reasuring to them that their efforts of so long ago are not forgotten in this country ,which sometimes seem to be going downhill fast

[Martin Bull]

It's a tough question. Before getting into an on-line punch-up I'll stress that these are purely my own opinions....

I don't like the airshow events, especially when the weather's hot. Some of those Duxford marquees are awful and I feel sorry for the veterans, many of whom aren't in the best of health, signing thousands of things thrust at them in stuffy, cramped conditions. Some years ago I used to sign mailshots and believe me, after 500 signatures you feel pretty weary. The only Duxford one I've bothered with in recent years was the 'Dambuster' signing in 2003 ; I really wanted to meet Ray Grayston and queued for an hour and a half to be right at the front.

I much prefer events like the ones at Aces High ; ticket-only, civilised surroundings for the veterans, limited numbers and time to talk with them.

To be honest, if I can't have at least a couple of minutes' conversation, I'm not really interested in getting the signature ; I'm not one for having 100 signatures on a print. I was lucky enough to spend an hour with a 91stBG veteran at 'Legends' last year and I treasure the copy of his book which he signed for me as a memento of the day. Ditto Aces High last weekend where I was able to converse and ask as many questions as I wanted.

OTOH, as you say, the opportunity to meet veterans at airshows is the only chance many enthusiasts get , and many ( not all :rolleyes: ) of the 'hosts' ( book dealers, aviation galleries, etc ) look after their guests very well.

But no, I don't like the 'production line' atmosphere of airshow signings ; I like to select ones I'm really interested in at BCA events, MKAS forums, Aces High and so on.

( Just read Mint's post - you're right up to a point that no-one forces the veterans ... I don't want to be patronising here, but , like a lot of older people, they don't like saying 'no' in many cases especially if there's a donation being made to a veterans charity. Some less-scrupulous event organisers in the past have paid scant attention to hospitality ; Bill Reid VC for instance was taken advantage of on a number of occasions. )

[minter]

good post MB ,fair points raised, dont know how these things are arranged,shame to hear about Mr Reid though,can understand your point about them not liking to say no, like my dad they come from a polite generation

[prune]

I think that some of the veterans do get a lot out of meeting their old comrades, and it is clear that they enjoy seeing the younger generation taking an interest,especially Bob Doe,Stapme and Geoff Wellum. They seem to be looked after at Duxford , and I know they do at Shoreham.



http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/chrisflanagan/JordR.jpg

[david cotton]

Blimey Prune..... I never knew you were so young :eek:

[prune]

Blimey Prune..... I never knew you were so young :eek:
that was taken a couple of years ago;)

[guignol1971]

that was taken a couple of years ago;)
OK, and who is the little guy with red shirt beside you ??? :D :p ;)

[minter]

thats a little prune

[Geoff K]

I can't speak for other holders of signing events, but as a volunteer with the Shoreham Aircraft Museum, I can say that the welfare of the Battle of Britain veterans who grace our signing events is our greatest priority.

Those that wish it are provided with a car and driver to bring them to the signing, and to return them home afterwards. The signings are split into two sessions, morning & afternoon, lasting no more than 90 minutes so as not to be too taxing for them, with the chance to relax and enjoy lunch (at our expense) in between.

All the veterans are of course there because they chose to accept our invitation to attend, and I can assure you that they all very much enjoy their time with us. So much so that at least one says he will only be signing for us in future.

The members of the public who come to meet the veterans and get their items signed also very much enjoy these events, and it's so good to see that those coming are not just the usual signature hunters, but ordinary people, young & old, who are just so pleased to have the chance to get their book etc. signed and to actually speak to and shake the hands of the veterans. So many times I heard people say 'Thank you for what you did' and really mean it. At one signing last year people had to queue for around five hours and yet thet still didn't mind!, which I think says a lot for the atmosphere at our signings, which many have said is so different from those at the airshows.

As a volunteer I coinsider myself privileged to be able to spend the whole day in the company of the veterans. I do collect Battle of Britain signatures, indeed hanging just by my desk now is a print signed by almost fifty veterans of 1940. As I look at each signature it takes me back to the day that it was added to the print, and I can hear again what we said to each other.

This year we will be again holding signings at the museum, this time to raise funds for our aim of providing memorials to those who lost their lives close to the museum in 1940, which will be sited as close as is practical to the actual crash site.

The signings will be on Sunday 21st May & Sunday 23rd July.

The current line-up for our first signing on Sunday 21st May is :-

Bob Doe, Pete Brothers, Peter Ayerst, Mike Croskell, Geoffrey Wellum, Jimmy Corbin, Nigel Rose, and Tony Iveson.

Any changes to this & further details will be posted here.

The first memorial that we are working on will be for James Paterson, a New Zealander of No 92 Sqn who lost his life on the 27th September 1940. The memorial will be unveiled at a memorial service close to the spot where he crashed, on the anniversary of his death.

Our website is at www.shoreham-aircraft-museum.co.uk

Geoff.

[Martin Bull]

I know people will violently disagree with this, but I notice that books etc signed by the three German Nightfighter aces who were in the UK last month are now appearing on e-bay at high prices.

I realise all's fair in love and war but it does seem a bit tacky ; it just doesn't seem to be 'in the spirit of the thing' to me. When I ask for stuff to be autographed, it's for me; a memento for my collection, and not an opportunity for instant profit.

But then I'm the first to admit that I'm old-fashioned.....:(

[Henry]

Hi MB,
I don't know if they're the same ones or not but I emailed the chap involved with the Nightfighter book and he's actually the author and got the items signed a while back. ( Apparently anyway )
I know what you meen about the instant profit though. The enjoyment for me is actually meeting the gentleman and like you say having a small memento.
Then I'm the SECOND to admit I'm old fashioned!!!

[Snapper]

This is a topic that is often discussed in our household. In my line of work I get to meet veterans on nearly a daily basis. Talking to some of them they are more than happy to do signings at Duxford etc and they say that they are well looked after.

However I was talking to one gentleman a couple of days ago and he said he had been asked to do stuff at Duxford but he just couldn't do it. When I asked him why he said he felt he would be betraying those in his crew that he had lost. Trust me this gentleman does not let a day go past without thinking of his friends, and he feels guilty about being old. The emotions are still raw, the injuries he obtained during the war still affect him today, both physically and mentally.

Another gentleman said he preferred to chat to people that hadnt queued for hours to talk to him, but that had chosen to start a conversation just walking around places such as Duxford. Yesterday I was educated about Bomb Disposal - the initiation of the conversation - a WWII bomb was found at a local school...this chap told me what type of bomb it was and how it would be made safe. We chatted for about 30 minutes, about D-Day etc.

My job might be uncertain at the moment, but whilst I still work within a hospital environment I will always try my best to make sure that these people are cared for, with respect. They have my uttmost respect.

It is down to the individual veterans personal choice as to whether they will attend these signing events or not. Some are happy to, others aren't so they don't.

[rmorley]

Signings.

There are really two extremes to this. I think that, at this point, I need to extol Tangmere for providing decent seats, lunch, and a nice atmosphere for ex-servicemen (true, the president and webmaster of Tangmere are both ex-servicemen, so this helps no end). Shoreham, Hawkinge and Tangmere are the kinds of museums where you would get such treatment if you'd won the DFC, or if you were an air ace. If you do go to signings, may I suggest you go to museum signings only.

However, airshows are, in fact utterly horrible. I have never, and probably never, queue at an airshow just so that a great man briefly says "hello" before writing his name into a book, or on a postcard, for the 3,632nd time that day. I prefer civilised conversation, perhaps the odd anecdote, and I think that we as a community could help the organisers of airshows realise that ex-servicemen, who, let us face it, are often infirm at their age, but still making an effort, need to be treated better for what they have done for this country. If the event is helping ex-servicemen, remember- you can always give a fiver directly to the cause being supported!

They deserve better than being in a hot marquee on a blazing summer day, forced out of politeness to continually write their name.

[Martin Bull]

I emailed the chap involved with the Nightfighter book and he's actually the author and got the items signed a while back.

I think that was probably David P Williams whose excellent Nightfighter book had a limited edition of 100 signed on publication by the five pilots featured ( it's a great collectors item ! :cool: )

The one on ebay at the moment is Hinchliffe's book about Schnaufer signed by the three men at Aces High who had no real connection with him....

[shuttle]

I agree with all the sentiments mentioned by Martin, Rmorley and Snapper. I don't normally attend signings but I was lucky enough to get Peter Vacher's signature last year at Duxford when he launched his superb book on Hurricane R4118. One of its BoB pilots, Bob Foster, was also there and I had a brief chat. It is such a honour to meet these men. However, I will never sell that book as it is now a very precious item for me with a nice memory. I can't understand people who would want to get a signature just to make a fast 'buck'. I am sure the veterans who do attend are well looked after and are comfortable with what they are doing and if it raises some cash for them then fine.

Maybe I am 'old fashioned'........

:D Shuttle

[Henry]

MB,

Spot on old chap.It was David Williams book that I was mentioning and yep, it is a damned fine book. Seemed like a decent chap from the few emails we exchanged.

Sorry, no offence intended.

H

[Geoff K]

For our first signing (21st May) we've actually had two pilots volunteer themselves to come along.

Geoff.