Let's talk Stirlings!!!

[Sailor.]

Leeds Museum are putting F/Sgt Arthur Aaron VC DFMs medals on show. Would I be right in thinking that at the time he (August 1943) earned it 218 "Gold Coast" Squadron, 3 Group, RAF Bomber Command based at RAF Downham Market were operating on Stirlings?

:) If so Let's start the campaign for the next four engined heavy right here! :)

:wacko: How do you add one of those 'would you buy it if the pooch made it' type poll thingys? :wacko:

[Craig]

Yep, I'd have one, one of the coolest of the Heavies in my opinion! Especially D-Day striped or a straight night bomber.....:cool

[minter]

oh yes with a diecast horsa,....or even a hamilcar :cool

[minter]

Leeds Museum are putting F/Sgt Arthur Aaron VC DFMs medals on show. Would I be right in thinking that at the time he (August 1943) earned it 218 "Gold Coast" Squadron, 3 Group, RAF Bomber Command based at RAF Downham Market were operating on Stirlings?

:) If so Let's start the campaign for the next four engined heavy right here! :)

:wacko: How do you add one of those 'would you buy it if the pooch made it' type poll thingys? :wacko:

i think it was on here that someone posted what they believe is a picture of this aircraft after it had crashed

[p-51d]

Can i start the campaign for the correct dorsal turret and under cart to be put on any future Stirling release.:D

[prune]

Think this will depend on how many Halifaxs Corgi sell.At the moment I dont think I'll be paying anything near full price for one, I'm so entrenched in the 'dump price' mindset.

[kevjb64]

Think this will depend on how many Halifaxs Corgi sell.At the moment I dont think I'll be paying anything near full price for one, I'm so entrenched in the 'dump price' mindset.

I think therein lies the problem for a lot of us Prune , I would hate to think how many posts on this forum have to do with price , how cheap can we get it etc . It has become a real zzzzzzzzz !! Whilst some are truly warranted such as even having to pay over £ 20 for a model the size of the vampire , the Corgi heavies in comparison to anything else made are IMPO great value for money . Personally I would like Corgi to go upmarket on these , produce less and charge more at least then I would not have to read so many crappy posts on the price subject . :)

[prune]

Problem is, Corgi still havent proved that they've got what it takes for me to pre-order.As MB has said, its a lot of money, so you expect the model to be right.There is still not enough communication between Corgi and collectors, so I dont have any confidence to pre-order.

[Leviathan]

I think therein lies the problem for a lot of us Prune , I would hate to think how many posts on this forum have to do with price , how cheap can we get it etc . It has become a real zzzzzzzzz !! Whilst some are truly warranted such as even having to pay over £ 20 for a model the size of the vampire , the Corgi heavies in comparison to anything else made are IMPO great value for money . Personally I would like Corgi to go upmarket on these , produce less and charge more at least then I would not have to read so many crappy posts on the price subject . :)

Kev,

This is potentially the hideous apocalyptic scenario our hobby is facing. The Halifax certainly represents great value for money and is a fabulous model, but it seems in-built that a number of collectors will not even dream of buying unless it reaches near dump prices.....and that is on the weekend of release!

I did follow this up with a paragraph about the plight of Genuine retailers, but I have just deleted it, because I know it would just bring a load of flak! Suppose this is just my lot and I'm stuck with it!


Regards



Leviathan

[Agent X20]

the hideous apocalyptic scenario .. naw that's getting caught by Mrs A .....smuggling Inflight's..

[minter]

the stirlings a big thing, how much plastic will corgi chuck in it ?

[von hitchofen]

enough to stop the u/c collapsing....

[kevjb64]

the stirlings a big thing, how much plastic will corgi chuck in it ?

Good question and once again it is probably a difficult equation for the likes of Corgi and other manufacturers , quality / price / content / sales . IMPO I would rather have a solid Lancaster type model and pay more for the privilege but I am I appreciate in the minority .:)

[DCRanger]

the stirlings a big thing, how much plastic will corgi chuck in it ?

I think this depends to some degree at least on what is needed to produce different variants. The Lanc was faily straightforward in only needing a different bomb bay and plates to cover the gun turrets. It was inevitable that the Hx would contain a lot more to allow a different nose, engines and tail surfaces.

[CFBC]

oh yes with a diecast horsa,....or even a hamilcar :cool

Yes, I would love one too, but as outlined by Lev and Kev - :D , what woul dyou pay for it? It's ok saying I want one and everybody saying that, but if it was £79.99 then would you pay that amount?

It's the same with the Halifax. Let's get realistic here. What is the point of Corgi producing the four engined heavies if all your going to do is wait for them to be reduced (at some point) and then buy them.

I appreciae we cannot all afford X, Y or Z, but Corgi are really sticking their neck out here to bring us these. If they cannot sell for this X, Y or Z then they may as well play safe like the rest....

Please don't take offence to any of my posting as it is not pointed at any one member, it's just my opinion after seeing post's on both this thread and the Hallibag thread. :)

[CFBC]

It was inevitable that the Hx would contain a lot more to allow a different nose, engines and tail surfaces.

Yes DCR, agreed.

[von hitchofen]

Yes, I would love one too, but as outlined by Lev and Kev - :D , what would you pay for it? It's ok saying I want one and everybody saying that, but if it was £79.99 then would you pay that amount?


call me mad - but if it looked good and it was "orl korrect" - i would pay ninety quid for it

but the Halifax isn't, so I won't

a Stirling could be more of the same

plenty of people think the same and it will be dumped - anyone who wants a Halifax will be able to pick and choose

I'd sooner have another Lanc than that Halifax

[minter]

Yes, I would love one too, but as outlined by Lev and Kev - :D , what woul dyou pay for it? It's ok saying I want one and everybody saying that, but if it was £79.99 then would you pay that amount?


this is true, it was more a tounge in cheek statement really, its probably more a diverse images thing

[no4mkit]

i think it was on here that someone posted what they believe is a picture of this aircraft after it had crashed

Here it is Minter....:)

Aaron Stirling crash photo (http://forums.diecast-aviation.eu/showpost.php?p=180623&postcount=26)

[Leviathan]

plenty of people think the same and it will be dumped

von hitchingtons,

I really don't think that it will be dumped!

If it does, it will be both a crying shame for a fantastic model that most collectors have been screaming for and will quite possibly be the final nail driven home!:(

For a couple of reasons, I sincerely hope that this is not the case!


Regards



Leviathan

[von hitchofen]

with 6000 at least coming out over the next 18 months or so???

I'm sceptical whether the demand is there.....

the Desert Halifax is looking more and more attractive....no ugly turrets on that one!

I think a Stirling would fall into the same category of limited demand excessive supply

[The Defiant Man]

with 6000 at least coming out over the next 18 months or so???



This is part of the problem....especially with the Halifax....many folks do not want or don't have the space for more than one....people are waiting for a specific scheme (e.g. FT13) or mark (in this case a Mk III). Add to this the fact that the run size is too big and this first Halifax is not going to do as well as it could/should.

Back on thread....sure, would love a diecast Stirling....can't see it though, and quite happy to make do with my plastic one.

[Hornchurch]

Leeds Museum are putting F/Sgt Arthur Aaron VC DFMs medals on show. Would I be right in thinking that at the time he (August 1943) earned it 218 "Gold Coast" Squadron, 3 Group, RAF Bomber Command based at RAF Downham Market were operating on Stirlings?




Sailor, I'm presuming this may be of interest, as no-one appears to have addressed your comments (above) within your initial post.

As I live (fairly) close to/not too far from the old RAF Downham Mkt base, I thought you might like to know that although the 'Hallowed-Ground' is often overlooked by most folks near & far, there IS an interesting memorial to both F/Sgt Aaron & Sqdn Ldr Ian Bazalgette - who was the pilot of a Pathfinder Lancaster ( also winning a Pothsumous V.C.) in virtually identical markings (Sqdn codes ' F2*T ') to the Lanc' depicted by Corgi (F2*V) in their AA.99133 Lanc'/Mosq' Pathfinder set.

As a memorial, there is a small wooden/glass display-case just outside the Church at Bexwell... (the TRUE location of the base, as it's actually outside of Downham Mkt itself).
The little 'case' on the grass-verge out side the Church (St Mary's) contains two replica V.C.'s & relates the (brief) tale of the two men.

The 218 Squadron Stirlings wore the (Red) HA * fuselage codes

If you dial in
http://www.bexwell-church.co.uk/raf.htm

you'll see some pix

[Sailor.]

Thanks for that Hornchurch, the link is most appreciated.

[p-51d]

Both very brave men, i'll call in next time i pass.

[kevjb64]

As will I , thanks for the link Hornchurch .:)

[lmisbtn]

Would love to see some Stirlings - much more so than the Halifax. A potentially great bomber that had its wings clipped (literally) by the Air Ministry. I've heard it said that some preferred it to the Lanc

Bomber
Target Tug & Horsa
Luftwaffe
Post-war Cargo

If Corgi get the marketing right a D-Day set would be pure gold - with cross appeal to AFV/diorama builders and WWII enthusiasts in general.

[minter]

i have heard it handled very well, but its ceiling let it down

[Craig]

i have heard it handled very well, but its ceiling let it down
Undercarriage a big issue too, not unusual to see one sat on its nose! :eek:

[maple 01]

I've heard it said that some preferred it to the Lanc

Read Len Deighton's 'Bomber!'

[no4mkit]

i have heard it handled very well, but its ceiling let it down

Heard this too, and read some pretty amazing accounts of it outmaneuvering night fighters. As Minter says, ceiling, as well as a bomb bay configured for small bombs (2000lb and smaller - another example of Air Ministry myopia) and tall fragile landing gear were it's downfall. The 'Super' Stirling addressed all of this but never went beyond the drawing board.

[col]

Any links to anything on the Super Stirling. I've never come across this before.

Aeropane Monthly reported a few years back on plans to recreate a Stirling along similar lines to the Halifax. I guess it never came to anything - ahh, a new thread:)

[no4mkit]

I have it in a few books - haven't seen anything online, Col. Only illustration I've seen is a line drawing. I'll scan and post here.

[Hornchurch]

Would love to see some Stirlings -

Bomber
Target Tug & Horsa
Luftwaffe
Post-war Cargo


You can add to your list...... Post War Bomber

Not many people realise it, but Short Stirlings flew their last true Bombing missions in 1948 !!!!!!!!!!! (yeah, I did say '48 - it's not a misprint !!!!!!!)

Several Egyptian Air Force examples flew numerous daylight raids against Israeli forces in Jan 1948 over a several week spell causing some casualties & damage.

There are several grainy pictures that still exist, showing them in E.A.F. service, including a shot of two Stirlings 'in-flight' together - both wearing the Green/White roundels

Prior to that, these very same a/c had been accquired from the Belgian civil-register (where they had previously been used as transports).

[no4mkit]

Here we go, Col. A few pages from Michael Bowyer's 'The Stirling Bomber'..


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/no4mkit/SuperStirling3view.jpg

the data page...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/no4mkit/SuperStirlingData.jpg

Apparently Shorts started this design before the first Stirlings were even operational. The goal was capacity for a 'modern' bombload, which meant room in the bomb bay for the largest 8000 lb HC bombs, increased span for greater load, altitude and range, and increased power via 4 Bristol Centaurus radials. Engines and crew stations were to have armor plate, and the front and rear turrets had .50 guns. Though not shown in the drawing, mid upper and ventral turrets were planned too. A mix of Air Ministry tinkering and success of the Lancaster led to cancellation.

[Craig]

Here we go, Col. A few pages from Michael Bowyer's 'The Stirling Bomber'..


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/no4mkit/SuperStirling3view.jpg

the data page...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/no4mkit/SuperStirlingData.jpg

Apparently Shorts started this design before the first Stirlings were even operational. The goal was capacity for a 'modern' bombload, which meant room in the bomb bay for the largest 8000 lb HC bombs, increased span for greater load, altitude and range, and increased power via 4 Bristol Centaurus radials. Engines and crew stations were to have armor plate, and the front and rear turrets had .50 guns. Though not shown in the drawing, mid upper and ventral turrets were planned too. A mix of Air Ministry tinkering and success of the Lancaster led to cancellation.
What a pity, could easily havebeen the ultimate bomber of the war. Pity no-one else had the foresight to put .50s on bombers, if you're going to give them a defensive armament at least make it a marginally effective one! You might as well have given the gunners water pistols as .303s. Air ministry tinkering though? Seems that only the names change as time goes on, the spirit remains the same.....:rolleyes:

[Upkeep]

I'd love a Stirling to go with my Lancaster, Halifax and Wellington. (I'd also like a Mk I Blenheim!)

[von hitchofen]

Several Egyptian Air Force examples flew numerous daylight raids against Israeli forces in Jan 1948 over a several week spell causing some casualties & damage.
Prior to that, these very same a/c had been accquired from the Belgian civil-register (where they had previously been used as transports).

its a crying shame they scrapped 'em all - same with Halifax/Haltons....-mad-