Guy Gibson

[CFBC]

Some interesting stuff about Guy Gibson here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gibson) :)

[FierytheAngelsFell]

Here is what Barnes Wallis had to say about Gibson:

"For some men of great courage and adventure, inactivity was a slow death. Would a man like Gibson ever have adjusted back to peacetime life? One can imagine it would have been a somewhat empty existence after all he had been through. Facing death had become his drug. He had seen countless friends and comrades perish in the great crusade. Perhaps something in him even welcomed the inevitability he had always felt that before the war ended he would join them in their Bomber Command Valhalla. He had pushed his luck beyond all limits and he knew it. But that was the kind of man he was…a man of great courage, inspiration and leadership. A man born for war…but born to fall in war."

[Martin Bull]

I make no excuses for recommending it again - but if you're in any way interested in Gibson, beg,borrow or steal a copy of Richard Morris' 'Guy Gibson' biography.

A remarkable book which pulls off the difficult feat of debunking the 'squeaky-clean hero' Gibson myth, yet shows that the real ( young ) man was in many ways even more heroic than the myth......

[planejunky]

So was Guy Gibson an "ace" then? :confused: :LOL:

[FierytheAngelsFell]

He was pretty handy with a bouncing bomb!

[FierytheAngelsFell]

I make no excuses for recommending it again - but if you're in any way interested in Gibson, beg,borrow or steal a copy of Richard Morris' 'Guy Gibson' biography.

A remarkable book which pulls off the difficult feat of debunking the 'squeaky-clean hero' Gibson myth, yet shows that the real ( young ) man was in many ways even more heroic than the myth......

Thanks for the tip. I have 'Enemy Coast Ahead' on the to do list first but will get to the bio too, eventually.

[dilligafocau]

So was Guy Gibson an "ace" then? :confused: :LOL:

Maybe the crews used to call him something 'similar' in the mess :D

[Martin Bull]

Gibson wasn't an 'Ace' in the accepted sense ( he failed to score as a night-fighter pilot ) but no-one would doubt that he qualifies as a 'Bomber Baron'.

As to what he was called in the Mess - he wasn't welcome at all in 627 Squadron's Mess ; one of whose aircraft he would die in.

[Sailor.]

As to what he was called in the Mess - he wasn't welcome at all in 627 Squadron's Mess ; one of whose aircraft he would die in.

Why was that Martin? From what I've read in 'Enemy Coast Ahead' Guy Gibson could be a bit of a lad in the Occifer's Mess. As you'll guess I dont have a copy of Morris' 'Guy Gibson' biography. This is an oversight I intend to address before Bomber Command Day! :)

[Martin Bull]

I shan't spoil it for anyone thinking of getting Morris' book. Gibson's atitude was certainly altered by what we would today call the 'celebrity culture' and this coincided with his own deep unhappiness at being taken off operations to result in a very unfortunate incident at Woodhall Spa

[prune]

Gibson wasn't an 'Ace' in the accepted sense ( he failed to score as a night-fighter pilot )

Didn't he claim 4 kills with 29 Squadron?

[Martin Bull]

Sorry prune, you're quite right - I meant the 'five for an Ace' criteria and worded my post badly....:o

[Dutchie]

I watched last evening "The Dam Busters" (1954-film) with Richard Todd as Guy Gibson. I think the real Gibson was a different (other) person.
:)

[Martin Bull]

Richard Todd portrayed very well the outward mannerisms of Gibson ( his speech habits, posture, etc ) but it is very 'one-dimensional'. However, that is understandable I suppose as the purpose of the film was to tell the story of the Raid ; it wasn't a psychological study.

Oh - and Todd was about ten years older than Gibson.....;)

[david cotton]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee310/david_cotton/32604a1.jpg

Picture by kind permision of Tricatus (http://www.tricatus.co.uk/AA32604.htm)...the unofficial Corgi Aviation Archive :)

This 1/72 model is Corgi number AA32604, and depicts the Lancaster of Guy Gibson in November 1942. The aircraft was nick name Admiral Prune and was operational with 106 Squadron.

It is one of 4 so called Work Horse Lancaster’s, made by Corgi. The others are S-Sugar, G-George and KMB. G- George is the rarest of the 4, as only 2400 were made, while Admiral Prune is a a slightly higher edition of 2800.

However, G-George has its camouflage reversed, so the brown is where the green should be and visa versa. Admiral Prune has its camouflage in the correct place, and this probably helps make it the most sort after of the 4 work horse Lancaster’s.

The Corgi Lancaster is generally accepted as one of the finest pieces of die cast to be produced to date.

[minter]

Richard Todd portrayed very well the outward mannerisms of Gibson ( his speech habits, posture, etc ) but it is very 'one-dimensional'. However, that is understandable I suppose as the purpose of the film was to tell the story of the Raid ; it wasn't a psychological study.


probably for the best, i wonder if in the new film Gibson will be "played down" it wold be a shame for one actor to steal it, cos it was a team effort

[Dutchie]

Richard Todd portrayed very well the outward mannerisms of Gibson ( his speech habits, posture, etc ) but it is very 'one-dimensional'. However, that is understandable I suppose as the purpose of the film was to tell the story of the Raid ; it wasn't a psychological study.

Oh - and Todd was about ten years older than Gibson.....;)

It was good te see the film!:)

[david cotton]

Corgi have two 1/72 editions of the Lancaster flown by Guy Gibson on the famous Dam Buster Raid.

The first was the Unlimited AA32608, and it was a popular model. However it does have the reverse camouflage problem. The Green is where the brown should be and visa versa.

The Dam Buster Lancasters were fitted with 2 spot lights under the aircraft. When the 2 light beams came together, the bomber was at the right height to release. On this model the lights actually work . There is a battery in the model and a switch to turn the lights on and off.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee310/david_cotton/aa32608pic.jpg
Picture by kind permision of Tricatus (http://www.tricatus.co.uk/AA32608.htm)...the unofficial Corgi Aviation Archive :)


The second Edition was AA32612 and it was limited to 1260. This model has the same working height finder spotlights as the original edition. However, it also comes with a Sight and Sound base, which is not very popular with serious collectors.

The big improvement on the second edition was the correcting of the reverse camouflage.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee310/david_cotton/32612a.jpg
Picture by kind permision of Tricatus (http://www.tricatus.co.uk/AA32612.htm)...the unofficial Corgi Aviation Archive :)

[Martin Bull]

Version #2 also did away with those seriously-silly camo-painted exhaust shrouds......:wacko:

[kevjb64]

But the green on the cammo is too light ( though to various degrees on the 4 I have in the loft ) !! :(

[KO-B]

But the green on the cammo is too light ( though to various degrees on the 4 I have in the loft ) !! :(

I'd heard several comments regarding the green, which made me waiver slightly between this and the earlier release before buying it. Honestly to me it looks fine, much better than I was expecting, however I don't yet have any other Lancs to compare it with.

KO-B

[Martin Bull]

Out and about quite near where I live today, and came across Aberdeen Place, NW8...

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover001.jpg

Note the first house on the left...

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover005-1-1.jpg

..with the Blue Plaque....

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover004.jpg

[triumph]

Not far from Regents Park eh....Had a look using Google street view. Wonder if the flats opposite was there in his day

[dilligafocau]

Not far from Regents Park eh....Had a look using Google street view. Wonder if the flats opposite was there in his day

Just had a look (after I got used to the new steetview navigation controls :o ) at the flats opposite Guy Gibson's place, definitely post war architecture...maybe bordering on Cold War stuff. Easy to tell really, no style at all :o .

[Martin Bull]

Quite a lot of the area hasn't changed since the War....one can imagine that the big pub ( the ornate building at the end of the road, now sadly boarded up :( ) was certainly visited by Gibson.....

[dilligafocau]

Quite a lot of the area hasn't changed since the War....one can imagine that the big pub ( the ornate building at the end of the road, now sadly boarded up :( ) was certainly visited by Gibson.....

Where I grew up (Ba'ersea) you could tell where the circa 1870's houses had been hit and replaced with newer lodgings, they certainly did'nt have the dough to match the architecture of the period. Serves as a reminder of the dark days I guess, at least the newer flats/houses had internal toilets :)

[Upkeep]

I'd heard several comments regarding the green, which made me waiver slightly between this and the earlier release before buying it. Honestly to me it looks fine, much better than I was expecting, however I don't yet have any other Lancs to compare it with.

KO-B

I also have this very model. I also have the S-Sugar Lanc. The difference I notice is not just in the green. The S-Sugar Lanc has colours that more resemble the 'classic' profile illustrations we often see. Darker. Muted. The SnS Dams Lanc, on the other hand, has that look that falls somewhere in the range of a 1940's colour photo.

And I like that version best, because it is consistent with my perception and can be confirmed in the odd colour photo.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/actualcolours_550.jpg


/U ;)

[Upkeep]

Out and about quite near where I live today, and came across Aberdeen Place, NW8...



Note the first house on the left...



..with the Blue Plaque....



I wonder who has the honour of living there now -- or if they really care? :unsure: I tell you, I wouldn't mind living there, for sure. At least my Corgi Dams Lanc would have a fitting home worthy of the cause!! :LOL:

/U

[Gomtuu]

On a slight tangent........

I was looking for houses on rightmove.co.uk and came across a house near me in Hucknall, Nottingham. This house was once lived in by Eric Coates who composed the "dambusters march" :cool:

It has a similar plaque outside.

[Dutchie]

Out and about quite near where I live today, and came across Aberdeen Place, NW8...

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover001.jpg

Note the first house on the left...

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover005-1-1.jpg

..with the Blue Plaque....

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/DambustersWendover/DambustersWendover004.jpg

Thanks Martin:cool: :)

[Sailor.]

I make no excuses for recommending it again - but if you're in any way interested in Gibson, beg,borrow or steal a copy of Richard Morris' 'Guy Gibson' biography.

A remarkable book which pulls off the difficult feat of debunking the 'squeaky-clean hero' Gibson myth, yet shows that the real ( young ) man was in many ways even more heroic than the myth......

:unsure: Just got round to ordering it this morning! :unsure:

[DCRanger]

:unsure: Just got round to ordering it this morning! :unsure:

Thought you were supposed to be getting it in time for the Bomber Command day? You won't regret buying it.:)

[Upkeep]

Just had a look (after I got used to the new steetview navigation controls :o ) at the flats opposite Guy Gibson's place, definitely post war architecture...maybe bordering on Cold War stuff. Easy to tell really, no style at all :o .

I dunno, Mr. Dill. I was having a look at Google Maps street view, walking down that street about 20 ft at a time, and I'd say the buildings on the other side of the street are classic British 30's architecture.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/gibbohouse.jpg

None the less, it was great taking a walk on the great Guy Gibson's street today. Now off to MY pub for a curry and Guinness!! http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/2_thumbs_up_-_animated.gif

/U ;) http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/havinapint.gif

[dilligafocau]

I dunno, Mr. Dill. I was having a look at Google Maps street view, walking down that street about 20 ft at a time, and I'd say the buildings on the other side of the street are classic British 30's architecture.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/gibbohouse.jpg

None the less, it was great taking a walk on the great Guy Gibson's street today. Now off to MY pub for a curry and Guinness!! http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/2_thumbs_up_-_animated.gif

/U ;) http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/upkeep/DAF/havinapint.gif

I certainly can't pin down the build date of these flats, many references to 'Poynter House' mainly through real estate sites and local Westminster member sites. It does look an interesting area to visit though :cool:

[Sailor.]

Thought you were supposed to be getting it in time for the Bomber Command day?

:eek: You can't just go rushing in and spending money just like that! :eek:

[Martin Bull]

I certainly can't pin down the build date of these flats....

They look to have been there quite some time...they are built directly over the tunnel taking the Regents Canal under Aberdeen Place to Little Venice.....;)

[dilligafocau]

They look to have been there quite some time...they are built directly over the tunnel taking the Regents Canal under Aberdeen Place to Little Venice.....;)

I will remember to pack a good pair of walking shoes when I make it back to London and the UK, so much history to get amongst :cool:

[Upkeep]

I will remember to pack a good pair of walking shoes when I make it back to London and the UK, so much history to get amongst :cool:

First rate advice for sure. After spending a couple of years here, I've discovered enough to fill a month in the UK, easily, of places to visit. Now to convince Mrs. Upkeep.:LOL: (Never to forget the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden either!!;))

/U

[dilligafocau]

First rate advice for sure. After spending a couple of years here, I've discovered enough to fill a month in the UK, easily, of places to visit. Now to convince Mrs. Upkeep.:LOL: (Never to forget the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden either!!;))

/U

The missus and daughter are keen for the trip, Im thinking of going a month ahead of them so I can get 'some' of the 'boring' bits out of the way before they want to do the major touristy things, it will be strange being a tourist in one's birth country :)

[Upkeep]

The missus and daughter are keen for the trip, Im thinking of going a month ahead of them so I can get 'some' of the 'boring' bits out of the way before they want to do the major touristy things, it will be strange being a tourist in one's birth country :)

I know the feeling. Two years ago this fall, my Brother and I went back to our old home town. When we grew up there and felt like we owned it. When we got off the airplane we felt like we still owned it. Walking around, we realized quickly that were just out-of-towners, even though folks were still VERY pleasant. Weird, I tell 'ya.

Good idea to pre-travel the 'exciting bits'! :D

/U

[kevjb64]

With the lack of diecast to buy I have taken to increasing some other collections which compliment my aircraft . These come sealed ( the Gazette announcement ) ready to frame and the ribbon bar is flat backed ready to display . Roughly £ 30 delivered , they will look :cool next to his Lancs and Mossie . :)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/kevjb64/GibsonMedals.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/kevjb64/Gibsonmedals2.jpg

[Max Reheat]

Interesting article by James Cutler in this month's Britain at War magazine which puts forward a very convincing case for the 'Friendly Fire' explanation of Gibson/Warwick's fatal crash and debunks the common fuel starvation explanation favoured by Morris in his biography (and Wikipedia :rolleyes: :D).

If true, it would appear that for some reason Gibson's Mozzie strayed too close to a Lanc on the return trip and drew considerable and accurate fire having been mistaken for a Ju 88. There seems to be considerable evidence of the event and subsequent cover up, including a taped 'confession' from the mid upper gunner and several thus far overlooked 'secret' documents which point to the conclusion. Apparently the pilot of the Lanc was also awarded a DFC for bringing home the cripped aircraft that night, even though his own combat report read 'nil damage' :unsure:.

[the_old_un]

Kev any chance of the url for buying that Gazette Gibson copy and medal ribon bar?

[the_old_un]

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jodanestew/DSCF0497.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jodanestew/GIBSONWARWICK.jpg

Warwick was only 22 years of age

[Martin Bull]

Interesting article by James Cutler in this month's Britain at War magazine which puts forward a very convincing case for the 'Friendly Fire' explanation of Gibson/Warwick's fatal crash and debunks the common fuel starvation explanation favoured by Morris in his biography (and Wikipedia :rolleyes: :D).



Thanks for the heads-up, MR - I don't get this magazine but bought this copy after reading your post.

Having read everything I've ever been able to find about Gibson, this is indeed an interesting article and presents a persuasive case. It's very likely the answer, even though I'm not 100% convinced ( as I won't be convinced by any theory so long after the event ).

I'm a bit irritated by the old [I]'here for the first time we reveal...' :rolleyes: tone, especially when the article states : -

'He was supposedly inexperienced on the type of aircraft - a Mosquito - that he was flying that night ( not true )....'

Isn't it ? :confused: The article coyly says nothing further on the subject. Certainly Gibson's logbook and researches by Mosquito historians reveal little - has this author found out something else......? Why no references ?

Also, I'm not sure about the author's assertions about the sequence of fuel-tank usage. He seems to overlook the fact that 627's Mosquitoes used auxiliary drop-tanks which required a fairly complex transfer procedure. I shan't drone on about it here - but full info is available in the 'Mosquito Manual'.

But the article also has some nice pics I hadn't previously seen - plus a useful pic of the little bit of fuselage which I have held in my hand and which is the reason the Corgi model appeared with Invasion stripes.....;)

Anyway, for me personally, really Gibson shouldn't have been there that night. It was a PFF job and he wasn't trained for it.

Whether : -

- he messed up with the Mossie's controls
- was hit by Allied light AA
- was shot down by another RAF aircraft

All of which to me are possibilities, IMPO Guy Gibson was ultimately killed by - Guy Gibson.

[Sailor.]

Martin, that bit of fuselage with the invasion stripes, is it the one which is in the RAF Scampton musuem?

[Martin Bull]

I think it moves around from museum to museum....:unsure: ....when I handled it, I'm fairly sure it was at Metheringham ( or was it Newark ? :o )

[Sailor.]

Always liked the little museum at Metheringham, their model Lanc is awesome. This is the bit of Gibson's kite we photographed in the Scampton museum...

15922

[Wolster]

{SNIP}

All of which to me are possibilities, IMPO Guy Gibson was ultimately killed by - Guy Gibson.

Well said, from what little I have read of him I think he was the type who was destined not to survive the war, peace would have killed him. Leonard Cheshire was the opposite, one was a thinker and the other a do-er, both very brave men and good leaders but with opposite styles.

[philclloyd]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/8817932/Dambusters-hero-killed-by-friendly-fire.html

[kevjb64]

Kev any chance of the url for buying that Gazette Gibson copy and medal ribon bar?

Look at ebay item number : 220737340954 . :)

[the_old_un]

Cheers, done and dusted :)

[kevjb64]

Cheers, done and dusted :)

They look really good , you will not be disappointed . :)

[the_old_un]

They look excellent. Going to place it next to a Robert Taylor print. :)

[Martin Bull]

With my interest in all things Gibson and 627 Squadron, I was quite pleased to get this nice little collectible off evilbay for under a t*nn*r : -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/Toys/Gibson026.jpg


The cover isn't rare but the signature is interesting to me : Squadron Leader Ronald G Churcher DSO DFC*. A real veteran, he flew his first tour with 106 Squadron on Hampdens, Manchesters and Lancasters, and where Guy Gibson was his CO.

He then did a stint at 5 Group HQ before a second tour on Lancs with 619 Squadron. He then 'wangled' his way onto Mossies with 627.

As Richard Morris notes in his excellent Gibson biography, it seems odd that in Gibson's final months, 'half-forgotten characters reappeared in new guise' and so it was with Churcher, who actually flew as Deputy Controller and Marker Leader on the fateful Rheydt operation of 19/9/44 from which Gibson failed to return in his own 627 Mossie.

Anyhow, with only 40 signed, it's a nice one to have.....:)

[DCRanger]

Interesting photo too. I don't recall seeing that one before.

[Martin Bull]

Interesting photo too. I don't recall seeing that one before.

Well-known Corgi Lancaster in the background ! ;)

[kevjb64]

Nice cover . :cool

[dilligafocau]

Well-known Corgi Lancaster in the background ! ;)

Ive had mine on display since day one, it was my 1st aviation diecast :cool:

[Martin Bull]

I know we joke about DAF Exclusives, but this really is one......here's something that's not been on public view for many, many years.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/MossieMuseum/Gibson028.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/MossieMuseum/Gibson030.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jgfive/MossieMuseum/Gibson035.jpg

Yes, it is.

No, it's not mine.

No, it's not going on e-bay.

Hopefully, before very long, anyone who wants to see it close-up should be able to as part of a display at the Mossie Museum.

;)

[DCRanger]

:cool Very nice, will you be selling signed copies of the photo's?:)

[Martin Bull]

I'll have to ask LoftyAgent Enterprises - I'm still trying to find the Sat Nav.....;)