What can we expect in the future ?

[johnnyboy]

What can we expect in the future in regards to diecast in 1/72?
I will stick my neck out and say that Hobbymaster are now the number one manufacture in terms of choice and quality of models produced, Century Wings are excellent if one talks of quality but if it does not have sea legs you not likely to see it made by them. Witty I have trouble knowing were to put them on a list as some of their products a top rate but others are very poor I am hoping that with the release of the F3 will see a turn about as their advert does state that this is the first of a new range. Corgi/Hornby we can only guess as to what we can see from them until a totally new product is released as it will be awhile to all the unreleased stuff comes on the market. Gemini what can I say about them after all the problems we had from at the start they went on to produce a top quality product but you cant base putting them on a list when they have only produced 3 great moulds I don’t count repaints so unless we here and see more form them and quickly I personally feel that they don’t stand a hope in hell of making it up the list. With all the dome and gloom forecast about the economy are we going to see the demise of any of the above given these are after all luxury goods I hope not but being realistic it will not be long until I personally with have to say no to buying more than one or two models a year and I know many are in the same boat and can any of the above survive a long hard world wide down turn in economy

[Agent X20]

I think you could be referring to diecast 2000-2008 as the good old days...

For me, in addition to your reasonings, there's something about the passion not really being there anymore... and one is now asking ... why? (...and that goes for Civil/Military whatever..)

(took a look upstairs - its going to take a very big Transit..!)

[scott]

Is it just not the case that less has to be produced , gone are the days of god knows how many P51Ds flooding the market and i would agree that HM have taken the lead now.
But there is still loads of stuff i want (come on Corgi i could do with some release dates)

[Agent X20]

But that then (going back to square one) takes it away from the mass producing diecast manufacturers.. so yer buggered..:D :eek:

[The Defiant Man]

HM currently in the lead....because they are currently producing most (too many?)....and bringing some different types to the market (e.g. Kate).

CW...very nice models....but if you're not interested in US Navy planes then not much use (which is why I don't have any). However, they've identified a niche in the market...stuck with it....collectors can build a theme......good sense.....

Witty.....bit part players.....can't see them staying in the market.

Gemini.........great models.....after their sabbatical it will be interesting how they do......they have the potential to be No. 1.

Corgi......after the dump of stock that must be on its way......gawd knows......but they are going to have to up their game and lower their prices & run sizes......difficult at the best of times, but in current economic conditions.....

Spent three hours in the loft on Saturday having a good clear out (not diecast!) and re-organisation (diecast!)....stood there thinking....jeez.....nuts......a lot has got to go......

[Agent X20]

Oooh.. fook.... thats about a dozen then, that want to sell their (or part of their collections)

[tomswel1]

HM currently in the lead....because they are currently producing most (too many?)....and bringing some different types to the market (e.g. Kate).

CW...very nice models....but if you're not interested in US Navy planes then not much use (which is why I don't have any). However, they've identified a niche in the market...stuck with it....collectors can build a theme......good sense.....

Witty.....bit part players.....can't see them staying in the market.

Gemini.........great models.....after their sabbatical it will be interesting how they do......they have the potential to be No. 1.

Corgi......after the dump of stock that must be on its way......gawd knows......but they are going to have to up their game and lower their prices & run sizes......difficult at the best of times, but in current economic conditions.....

Spent three hours in the loft on Saturday having a good clear out (not diecast!) and re-organisation (diecast!)....stood there thinking....jeez.....nuts......a lot has got to go......
Well lets be honest how many of us are sensible????:confused: we see the 1 then 2 3 4............................... we like then buy,buy,buy some go on display, many more in the loft, seller etc and then swapped, sold off or whatever.theres endless amounts on ebay etc and so many others selling them i find it difficult to see the supply and demand being as it has been the last few years:eek: and pre-ordering has become a pointless excercise

[The Defiant Man]

Oooh.. fook.... thats about a dozen then, that want to sell their (or part of their collections)

There are times when you think....what's the point....but that passes. It's mainly that there are others I want but there is no space either in the cabinets or the loft.

Did a rationalisation a couple of years ago....sold nearly all my Dragons and all non-Corgi jets (Gaincorp, Sun Star, Dragon, etc + non-RAF/RN/FAA jet kit-builds). OK, only got rid of about 30, but it provided space in the cabinets. Now they are full again and the loft is nigh-on full as well.....

Next to go is going to be USAAF WWII stuff....you know, the ones currently worth s*d-all:rolleyes: All the US types are available in other schemes anyway and I'd much rather keep by RAF timeline and Lufty/Eyetie/Jap stuff....which reminds me, must go pick up my Kate from the PO!:D

[blue steel]

With a few notable exceptions most of the obvious subjects have been covered and whilst for example a Sea Vixen would be an awesome subject it would of course have limited appeal and livery options. I guess the irony with Corgi is that some of their original tooling still has potential, especially the RN and RAF 'fast-jets', as many of their previous releases weren't as interesting as they might have been. However, I do get the feeling that Hobby Master will continue to bring us some very interesting models at affordable prices and we'll probably get some 'superior' offerings of models already made which is perhaps fine with a HM F4 Phantom but this may not be as appealing if it's another Mustang or Corsair, however good they may be. I think in the short-term at least, Hornby will HAVE to do something special if they want to regain some ground as Hobby Master have forged so far ahead in terms of product and collector/customer relations. There are still lots of subjects that would have great appeal of course (F101,F105,E-3 Hawkeye, Boston/Havoc, Tempest, AV8B/GR5/7 Harrier, Mirage III, Mig 15, A26 Invader, Fairey Barracuda etc) so these will all hopefully be viable propositions

[leeG]

I think Hobby Master has been filling the void created by Corgi's, Gemini Aces and Dragons hiatius in new releases. And good thing too! My bank account couldn't have kept up if they all were issuing new models.

Things should get interesting at the end of the year. Corgi will have its future plans sorted out and Gemini is showing new signs of life. I expect HM will ease off on new releases when the missing players reappear and the vacuum no longer exists.

[strix1998]

I expect HM will ease off on new releases when the missing players reappear and the vacuum no longer exists.[/QUOTE]

All credit to HM they have pushed ahead with many new models in a difficult economic environment with full and attentive liaison with the collecting community.
Whilst I wish the Corgi brand and missing releases well why should HM with all of the recent plaudits that it has earned take its foot off the gas. At least my Hm preorders are fronting up on time. Sorry Corgi but you have to re earn my respect...................

[von hitchofen]

F105, Boston/Havoc, Tempest, AV8B Harrier, Mirage III, Mig 15, A26 Invader

i'd have one of each in 1/72, thats fer sure.....plus a Do17 and NF.XXX Mossie

[tomswel1]

http://forums.diecast-aviation.eu/images/aesthetic/misc/progress.gif Agree why should Hm slow down? its up to the others to better them which wont be easy,if they cant including hornby i think they will fall away and hornby have plenty to fall back on so how much effort they put in remains to be seen, and if they feel the first few releases dont do well (depending on their expectations) they may well fade away the AA.???

[The Defiant Man]

It depends what you mean by slow down.

HM have currently stole a march with their new types and their discussions with collectors.....long may both continue.

But....there is a lot of HM floating around....somebody posted that at a recent airshow there was piles & piles of them. They need to be careful or else they could find themselves in the same boat as Corgi with regard un-sold models.

The Kate is an interesting example. It's excellent and, apparently, the first one, which is "unlimited", is in short supply and Flying Mule have not been able to meet all of their pre-orders. But how many collectors will just want the one (like me).....and how many will buy 3,4,5......

It is a very difficult balancing act between keeping collectors interested with new types versus getting maximum returns from the tooling.

[von hitchofen]

But....there is a lot of HM floating around....somebody posted that at a recent airshow there was piles & piles of them.

wouldn't want them to become the Franklin Mint of 1/72....

[The Defiant Man]

pre-ordering has become a pointless excercise

I, and a few others, have said the same about every release (with one or two exceptions) for the last 3-4 years.

[strix1998]

http://forums.diecast-aviation.eu/images/aesthetic/misc/progress.gif Agree why should Hm slow down? its up to the others to better them which wont be easy,if they cant including hornby i think they will fall away and hornby have plenty to fall back on so how much effort they put in remains to be seen, and if they feel the first few releases dont do well (depending on their expectations) they may well fade away the AA.???

but HM CW and WW have not let the grass grow under their feet and have filled a void that Corgi's marketing malaise and financial situation had opened up. As previously mentioned satisfying old pre-orders by Cornby aint going to hack it in the long term they really need to re-establish their credentials on an ongoing basis. The diecast aviation world has seriously moved on apace in quality and price terms in a very short period of time...................

[von hitchofen]

depends how much discretionary spending is knocking around....if it ain't profitable, it'll go....:(

[DaveyJ]

With the rise of Hobby Master, I think we'll see them consolidate their position, however I think what we'll also see is a "comeback" from Corgi which will see them concentrate on the RAF/British (and perhaps European) arena, which is very poorly covered by the other manufacturers: we have plentiful Spitfires, a Tornado from Revell (if you can find it), soon there will be a Tornado from Witty, there are Witty Sea Fury (or loads !) and a couple of Phantoms (a US aircraft) in UK colours and that's about it - not much really is it ? And an Air Cobra of course :)

So there you have a market for Corgi - there is still life in some of their "current" moulds and there are attractive options which they (or anyone) don't do yet - some of them obvious (see below). I think we'll see Hornby living up to their promise to try to attract younger collectors, probably, in the aviation field, via more recent aircraft, which younger people will recognise and may start them collecting.

There are a few aircraft which can do this, as well as fitting in with what I just said, for example the Harrier GR5/7/9 which share a common body (keeping tooling costs down), with the GR5 only having a different nose (I think). The GR7 and GR9 are visually identical. There are plenty of different schemes for these. I'd also suggest that there is still life in the Typhoon - let's see an FGR4 (and the controversial panel lines filled in - in the correct grey !)

There are still plenty of subjects left that should generate reasonable sales and many more which may generate lower sales, see Blue Steel's posting for some.

I don't know when it'll happen, but I think we'll find pricing alters to reflect total potential sales from a mould, based on the number of schemes available - no-one's yet dared to do this - genarally pricing goes on relative size of the model - this will need to change to reflect production quantities and costs.

However, there's still much to be positive about so let's actually be positive about the future !!

[strix1998]

With the rise of Hobby Master, I think we'll see them consolidate their position, however I think what we'll also see is a "comeback" from Corgi which will see them concentrate on the RAF/British (and perhaps European) arena, which is very poorly covered by the other manufacturers: we have plentiful Spitfires, a Tornado from Revell (if you can find it), soon there will be a Tornado from Witty, there are Witty Sea Fury (or loads !) and a couple of Phantoms (a US aircraft) in UK colours and that's about it - not much really is it ? And an Air Cobra of course :)

So there you have a market for Corgi - there is still life in some of their "current" moulds and there are atractive options which they (or anyone) don't do yet - some of them obvious (see below). I think we'll see Hornby living up to their promise to try to attract younger collectors, probably, in the aviation field, via more recent aircraft, which younger people will recognise and may start them collecting.

There are a few aircraft which can do this, as well as fitting in with what I just said, for example the Harrier GR5/7/9 which share a common body (keeping tooling costs down), with the GR5 only having a different nose (I think). The GR7 and GR9 are visually identical. There are plenty of different schemes for these. I'd also suggest that there is still life in the Typhoon - let's see an FGR4 (and the controversial panel lines filled in - in the correct grey !)

There are still plenty of subjects left that should generate sales and many more which may generate lower sales, see Blue Steel's posting for some.

I don't know when it'll happen, but I think we'll find pricing alters to reflect total potential sales from a mould, based on the number of schemes available - no-one's yet dared to do this - genarally pricing goes on relative size of the model - this will need to change to reflect production quantities and costs.

However, there's still much to be positive about so let's actually be positive about the future !!

but Corgi/Cornby has lost the ball and needs to get it back.................

[tomswel1]

[/b]

but HM CW and WW have not let the grass grow under their feet and have filled a void that Corgi's marketing malaise and financial situation had opened up. As previously mentioned satisfying old pre-orders by Cornby aint going to hack it in the long term they really need to re-establish their credentials on an ongoing basis. The diecast aviation world has seriously moved on apace in quality and price terms in a very short period of time...................


Well yes thats basically what i'm saying and so will Horny be able to catch up and go one better ??:unsure: and how much interest will they really have? they have their fingers in a lot soup bowls and AA may well not be top of the list ,my god where did i get soup bowls from:unsure: :)

[blue steel]

All excellent posts chaps ;) . With particular regard to 'future' Hornby, let's say they want to come back with a bang. A Short Stirling model would certainly be just that but a big and expensive model to produce (and sell!), plenty of versions but how many would buy a 'few' ? For starters and in my honest opinion, their 2009/10 releases should include a RN and RAF Bucc, Jaguar, Harrier, Sea Harrier, Typhoon, Tornado, Sea King AEW, winter camo Wessex, Singapore Canberra, Swordfish and Mossie with rockets and a circa 1941 RAF 'every day' Wellington. Following on from Davey J's point, I'm sure these would all appeal greatly to the UK enthusiast. I don't want to keep going on with my weapon/loads fetish but here's some food for thought anyway! Typhoon with ASRAAM and Paveways, Navy Bucc with Bullpups or rocket pods or a 'Buddy' re-fuelling pod, RAF Bucc with Martels, Jag with clusters and 1000lb bombs, Canberra with Nord AS30's, Sea Harrier with Sidewinders and Sea Eagles, Harrier with Paveways or centreline recce pod, Tornado with 8 x 1000lb bombs under the fuselage or ALARMS or Storm Shadow!!! These are all typically British combinations and are all tools that in the main are already available. Part of the reason that HM and CW models are so popular is that the weapon loads are varied and realistic which...dare I say it....make the models much more exciting

[Craig]

Got to agree with you there BS, certain aircraft are synonimous with certain weapons loads, and you just can't do a certain type without them. I would add to that list a Shrike equipped Vulcan would be rather cool. ASRAAMs are essential though, and I do honestly think they'd be a good investment. :)

[CFBC]

Very interesting reading indeed chaps on this thread. I am not going to give my views, but what I will say is those attending Waddington should feel free to ask Gary/William their thoughts as to the future releases by HM. You may be suprised what is said.....

As to Corgi. I can say that I have had recent contact with them and they are working very hard behind the scenes for future announcements. They DO have a mountain to climb as some of you realise and it is not going to be easy for them, but things are looking promissing indeed. Again, I am afraid I cannot say anything in respect of releases, except things are progressing.

:)

[blue steel]

Got to agree with you there BS, certain aircraft are synonimous with certain weapons loads, and you just can't do a certain type without them. I would add to that list a Shrike equipped Vulcan would be rather cool. ASRAAMs are essential though, and I do honestly think they'd be a good investment. :)

Thanks Craig ;) Just to let you know that I sent Corgi a request to perhaps consider a 'Black Buck' Vulcan with 'Shrikes' possibly as a special set with a Victor tanker but unfortunately it was around October last year so not good timing :( :) Also suggested a 'First attack on Port Stanley' Sea Harrier....oh well, maybe for the 30th anniversary of the Falklands war....(or the 27th :D)

[tomswel1]

Very interesting reading indeed chaps on this thread. I am not going to give my views, but what I will say is those attending Waddington should feel free to ask Gary/William their thoughts as to the future releases by HM. You may be suprised what is said.....

As to Corgi. I can say that I have had recent contact with them and they are working very hard behind the scenes for future announcements. They DO have a mountain to climb as some of you realise and it is not going to be easy for them, but things are looking promissing indeed. Again, I am afraid I cannot say anything in respect of releases, except things are progressing.

:)
Well thats good to hear and whatever the future holds i think there will still be plenty of collecting to be had:) but the wallet says:eek:

[blue steel]

Well thats good to hear and whatever the future holds i think there will still be plenty of collecting to be had:) but the wallet says:eek:

Toms you know full well that the money WILL be found when you see them models :( :)

[tomswel1]

Toms you know full well that the money WILL be found when you see them models :( :)

well you know how it is;):D

[Marky_ncl]

I was told on Tuesday that we should hopefully expect some new releases in the next 2-3 weeks.

This will hopefully be the start of a regular release schedule.

No news yet as to what to expect but I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

Mark :)

[DaveyJ]

but Corgi/Cornby has lost the ball and needs to get it back.................


But no-one has taken Corgi's ball - it's still there for them to pick up again, in the UK at least, as they mostly produced, and presumably will again produce, models for the British collector (i.e a collector of British aircraft, not a collector who's British), which no-one else is doing at the moment, with a handful of exceptions, which I mentioned. Look at Blue Steel's lists - there's a good selection of aircraft in there that no-one has done/is doing which could easily sell well, many of which Corgi have already produced moulds for.

I'd also echo Blue Steel's requests for fully 'tooled up' aircraft - it makes the model more "realistic" and shows them for what they are - weapons delivery platforms (and by fitting different armaments to effectively the same model the manufacturers costs per model reduce and profit per model increases).

And I'm salivating thinking of this lot from BS's list "RN and RAF Bucc, Jaguar, Harrier, Sea Harrier, Typhoon, Tornado, Sea King AEW, Singapore Canberra, Mossie with rockets" and a 1/72 Black Buck Vulcan. I'd add a Sea Vixen and an AEW Gannet to the list too. And a Javelin ??? And if the price is high to cover a low production run so be it - I'll bankrupt myself for them :) Now all I need is for them to be made.

[blue steel]

i'd have one of each in 1/72, thats fer sure.....plus a Do17 and NF.XXX Mossie

Put me down for those too VH ;)

[Edward Papazian]

It seems to me that Corgi, if it intends to compete with Hobby Master, must choose between its traditional UK and European orientation in new mold choices and a more balanced menu, geared to woo the huge U.S. market. The latter probably accounts for 50% of military diecast sales while the UK does about 5-7% and Europe, perhaps, 25%.

Since Hobby Master is moving aggressively to bolster its position as the category leader, it is inevitable that it will improve its UK/European distribution and turn out more RAF, Luftwaffe and Russian models to exploit this initiative---the announced Beaufighter being a first sign of this strategy being set in motion.

In view of this, I would advise Corgi to counter HM with more U.S.-oriented warbirds---either of the WWII or Cold War and modern variety. Some examples are the A-20, IL-2M, F-22, Mig -15 and Mig -23---the list is almost endless. This does not mean that Corgi should ignore its "core" UK collector base. By all means, Corgi, do a Tempest V or a late model Spit and exploit your near monopoly in biggies by giving us a Short Sterling, a Whitley and, perhaps, an FW-200. But, most important, offer a balanced lineup that appeals strongly to collectors on both sides of the Atlantic.

Is any of this likely to happen? Based on persistent rumors, I believe that the old Corgi management was finally leaning in this direction and there are encouraging hints that the new Corgi management has similar intentions. In which case, I wouldn't count Corgi out, just yet. 2009 should be a very interesting year for military diecast collectors.

[scott]

I have to agree with alot of whats been said and it would be good if Corgi came back with a bang say a short sterling :D

As for the rest of their molds there is loads of stuff they could bring out , just one would be the dessert blackhawk they canceled , I'm well into my blackhawks at the mo :)

[planenuts]

At least myself and many others on this side of the pond think we are in the golden age of diecast now. I know that I'm spending more money than ever, and I'm more excited about the models than ever before. No doom and gloom around here:D

[blue steel]

But no-one has taken Corgi's ball - it's still there for them to pick up again, in the UK at least, as they mostly produced, and presumably will again produce, models for the British collector (i.e a collector of British aircraft, not a collector who's British), which no-one else is doing at the moment, with a handful of exceptions, which I mentioned. Look at Blue Steel's lists - there's a good selection of aircraft in there that no-one has done/is doing which could easily sell well, many of which Corgi have already produced moulds for.

I'd also echo Blue Steel's requests for fully 'tooled up' aircraft - it makes the model more "realistic" and shows them for what they are - weapons delivery platforms (and by fitting different armaments to effectively the same model the manufacturers costs per model reduce and profit per model increases).

And I'm salivating thinking of this lot from BS's list "RN and RAF Bucc, Jaguar, Harrier, Sea Harrier, Typhoon, Tornado, Sea King AEW, Singapore Canberra, Mossie with rockets" and a 1/72 Black Buck Vulcan. I'd add a Sea Vixen and an AEW Gannet to the list too. And a Javelin ??? And if the price is high to cover a low production run so be it - I'll bankrupt myself for them :) Now all I need is for them to be made.

Now it's my turn to salivate :D

[kevjb64]

It seems to me that Corgi, if it intends to compete with Hobby Master, must choose between its traditional UK and European orientation in new mold choices and a more balanced menu, geared to woo the huge U.S. market. The latter probably accounts for 50% of military diecast sales while the UK does about 5-7% and Europe, perhaps, 25%.

Since Hobby Master is moving aggressively to bolster its position as the category leader, it is inevitable that it will improve its UK/European distribution and turn out more RAF, Luftwaffe and Russian models to exploit this initiative---the announced Beaufighter being a first sign of this strategy being set in motion.

In view of this, I would advise Corgi to counter HM with more U.S.-oriented warbirds---either of the WWII or Cold War and modern variety. Some examples are the A-20, IL-2M, F-22, Mig -15 and Mig -23---the list is almost endless. This does not mean that Corgi should ignore its "core" UK collector base. By all means, Corgi, do a Tempest V or a late model Spit and exploit your near monopoly in biggies by giving us a Short Sterling, a Whitley and, perhaps, an FW-200. But, most important, offer a balanced lineup that appeals strongly to collectors on both sides of the Atlantic.

Is any of this likely to happen? Based on persistent rumors, I believe that the old Corgi management was finally leaning in this direction and there are encouraging hints that the new Corgi management has similar intentions. In which case, I wouldn't count Corgi out, just yet. 2009 should be a very interesting year for military diecast collectors.

Interesting figures , what are the sources because they are nothing like the ones qouted to us at various meetings with the old Corgi , reports from FM etc . Who both have said that USA accounted for very little of the sales hence huge shipments back / or to UK to unload massive amounts of stock ( FM's efforts being near on 30 x 40' containers at the last count in 2007 alone ) . Interestingly the hounds worse sellers were always US related stuff , B17's , Libs , P51d's etc . Most of the FM stuff still laying around unsold at £ 9.99 are USAAF schemes whilst the RAF / Luftwaffe stuff has been sold or commanding higher prices . :confused:

[Cardinal]

I have to agree with alot of whats been said and it would be good if Corgi came back with a bang say a short sterling :D

As for the rest of their molds there is loads of stuff they could bring out , just one would be the dessert blackhawk they canceled , I'm well into my blackhawks at the mo :)


Are you a confectionary imbibing currency speculator perchance? :D

[blue steel]

It seems to me that Corgi, if it intends to compete with Hobby Master, must choose between its traditional UK and European orientation in new mold choices and a more balanced menu, geared to woo the huge U.S. market. The latter probably accounts for 50% of military diecast sales while the UK does about 5-7% and Europe, perhaps, 25%.

Since Hobby Master is moving aggressively to bolster its position as the category leader, it is inevitable that it will improve its UK/European distribution and turn out more RAF, Luftwaffe and Russian models to exploit this initiative---the announced Beaufighter being a first sign of this strategy being set in motion.

In view of this, I would advise Corgi to counter HM with more U.S.-oriented warbirds---either of the WWII or Cold War and modern variety. Some examples are the A-20, IL-2M, F-22, Mig -15 and Mig -23---the list is almost endless. This does not mean that Corgi should ignore its "core" UK collector base. By all means, Corgi, do a Tempest V or a late model Spit and exploit your near monopoly in biggies by giving us a Short Sterling, a Whitley and, perhaps, an FW-200. But, most important, offer a balanced lineup that appeals strongly to collectors on both sides of the Atlantic.

Is any of this likely to happen? Based on persistent rumors, I believe that the old Corgi management was finally leaning in this direction and there are encouraging hints that the new Corgi management has similar intentions. In which case, I wouldn't count Corgi out, just yet. 2009 should be a very interesting year for military diecast collectors.

If I was trying to please the UK/US collector with new or not yet announced models my top choices would be: Boston/Havoc, B29, Hercules, Harrier AV8B/GR5/GR7, Sikorsky S55/Westland Whirlwind, Vought Kingfisher, Lockheed Hudson and Lockheed Neptune all in 1/72. All-rounders would be Mig 15, Mirage III/5, SU17 (22?), Mig 23/27 and Grumman Tracker/Tracer

[kevjb64]

It will be very interesting to see how much Hornby change the Corgi plan of 2007 / 2008 . A lot had been learnt of the mistakes of 2002-2006 ( interestingly I personally see the new players in the market making exactly the same mistakes of over scheming molds , over production of most stuff etc . ) and changes had been made that came too late to save a company that had poured so much money down the drain . Very good sources have it that the 1st half 2008 remains virtually intact and no surprise as it had basically SOLD OUT written all over it . Of course how long wholesalers / dealers will hold onto the stuff this time may still be the real issue but for once Cornby wil be supplying models into warehouses stacked high with other companies older models that may have to be rapidly dumped even further . The places I visit regularly are currently holding very little Corgi old stock and lots of everybody elses and as we know when the sales start there is usually a rush for the exit . The issue of the 800K of stock will need to be looked at but this is not a company with short term cash flow problems so the panic may not be there yet as it has been before .

[Edward Papazian]

Interesting figures , what are the sources because they are nothing like the ones qouted to us at various meetings with the old Corgi , reports from FM etc . Who both have said that USA accounted for very little of the sales hence huge shipments back / or to UK to unload massive amounts of stock ( FM's efforts being near on 30 x 40' containers at the last count in 2007 alone ) . Interestingly the hounds worse sellers were always US related stuff , B17's , Libs , P51d's etc . Most of the FM stuff still laying around unsold at £ 9.99 are USAAF schemes whilst the RAF / Luftwaffe stuff has been sold or commanding higher prices . :confused:

I can't give you chapter and verse on these figures, which are my own estimates bases on many tidbits of information and informed comments I encountered over the past five years, more or less. One statistic I noted recently came from Hobby Master's William, who stated that the production run on their first Kate was 2000, of which 50% were allocated to the U.S. I'm not using this as definitive proof of U.S. market share, however, if one considers the relative populations of the various countries along with their wealth, global outlook--or lack of same--as well as the number of online sellers doing business per country, the eBay listings and other factors, I find it hard to see how the U.S. could not rate as the most significant diecast warbird market, dwarfing most others.

[The Defiant Man]

Good read, this thread (since I last posted!:D )

As blue steel and a few others have said, there are still a number of types or variations of types that could/should be done...and which will no doubt be very popular with the nutters such as ourselves......

However......my concern, for any new tooling, from any manufacturer, is viability. We can see from the special commission run sizes, which are now down to around 500-600, that the days of 1,000+ run sizes are.....well, just not needed...and that's for fighters....for heavies it will be even less. Hence, to get the return they need for a new tooling......higher price or a lot of lower runs for less iconic aircraft (in the eyes of the general populace or occasional buyer). Higher price in today's economic climate....suicide. Numerous schemes......overkill, if you're not careful. Toughie.....

I think this is why I agree with Agent.....the last few years have been a golden age.....I think the number of new toolings will not be as high as previously.

If:rolleyes: a 1/32 190 is done the first one will no doubt be eagerly snapped up.....but how many will the manufacturer have to produce to make it worthwhile....and at what price. From a business plan/profit point of view 1/32, nice as they are, was one of Corgi's worst mistakes. It would be a shame if the scale caused problems for another manufacturer......people should be careful not to wish for things that could, although bringing short-term whoops of joy, ultimately cost the hobby a lot more.....

[Cardinal]

Good read, this thread (since I last posted!:D )

As blue steel and a few others have said, there are still a number of types or variations of types that could/should be done...and which will no doubt be very popular with the nutters such as ourselves......

However......my concern, for any new tooling, from any manufacturer, is viability. We can see from the special commission run sizes, which are now down to around 500-600, that the days of 1,000+ run sizes are.....well, just not needed...and that's for fighters....for heavies it will be even less. Hence, to get the return they need for a new tooling......higher price or a lot of lower runs for less iconic aircraft (in the eyes of the general populace or occasional buyer). Higher price in today's economic climate....suicide. Numerous schemes......overkill, if you're not careful. Toughie.....

I think this is why I agree with Agent.....the last few years have been a golden age.....I think the number of new toolings will not be as high as previously.

If:rolleyes: a 1/32 190 is done the first one will no doubt be eagerly snapped up.....but how many will the manufacturer have to produce to make it worthwhile....and at what price. From a business plan/profit point of view 1/32, nice as they are, was one of Corgi's worst mistakes. It would be a shame if the scale caused problems for another manufacturer......people should be careful not to wish for things that could, although bringing short-term whoops of joy, ultimately cost the hobby a lot more.....


One should look at this with some perspective. Corgi 'flooded' the market with 1/32. Their PR-F first release Spitfire was produced in numbers well in excess (I suspect) of the entire number (under 3000) of the first three releases of HM's 1/32 SBD Dauntless. This doesn't even account for the fact that Corgi continued to churn out more Spitfires and Bf109s in greater numbers than the market could digest over a short timespan :(.

I honestly do believe that a 1/32 FW190A :cool: would be one of HM's greatest and most successful releases to date ... :)

(I'll possibly pre-order the first three +, faults and all :D.)

[The Defiant Man]

One should look at this with some perspective. Corgi 'flooded' the market with 1/32. Their PR-F first release Spitfire was produced in numbers well in excess (I suspect) of the entire number (under 3000) of the first three releases of HM's 1/32 SBD Dauntless. This doesn't even account for the fact that Corgi continued to churn out more Spitfires and Bf109s in greater numbers than the market could digest over a short timespan :(.



True....but as kev said a few posts back, he can see manufacturers making the same mistakes that Corgi did......and I can see it too. As for the Dauntless.....don't know what the run sizes were....but there's loads of them about......

[Cardinal]

True....but as kev said a few posts back, he can see manufacturers making the same mistakes that Corgi did......and I can see it too. As for the Dauntless.....don't know what the run sizes were....but there's loads of them about......


Not for long I suspect given that (I think :unsure: ) William mentioned that the first two releases have been very successful and although some vendors have requested additional stock, it is not available as they've sold out their entire stock at wholesale level :cool:.

[tomswel1]

True....but as kev said a few posts back, he can see manufacturers making the same mistakes that Corgi did......and I can see it too. As for the Dauntless.....don't know what the run sizes were....but there's loads of them about......
Run was 1000 i believe for each and the third one so not too many yet still no shortage of them from what ive seen although the the previous post suggests otherwise :confused: ,maybe a dauntless not the best subject? i love the 1/32's but will only be getting the third one.

[Scottuk]

Can we expect Horngi to make good on Corgi's freeby promises?

[johnnyboy]

Wow what a thread this has turned out to be and what a great read too, Little did I know when I posted yesterday it would evoke such feelings in others and I have to say the general mood of many on here is uplifting. I know many people think that we are mad to be collecting "TOYS" and at times I have felt unable to express to non collectors the strength of commitment I feel and it is obvious you all feel as well to this hobby. THIS FORUM ROCKS

[tomswel1]

Wow what a thread this has turned out to be and what a great read too, Little did I know when I posted yesterday it would evoke such feelings in others and I have to say the general mood of many on here is uplifting. I know many people think that we are mad to be collecting "TOYS" and at times I have felt unable to express to non collectors the strength of commitment I feel and it is obvious you all feel as well to this hobby. THIS FORUM ROCKS

It starts as a hobbie but soon becomes a compulsive addiction:LOL:

[Agent X20]

The Dauntless situation is all about cash flow.. if they are being dribbled out and reaching full retail then that is no bad thing - an element of retained product, stock even, like the good old days in the sixties, and the model shop kept a stock of every Airfix kit. This market doesnt have to be about limited editions, launched on Moday and all gone by Thursday... The rot, if it comes is seeing that model at 25% of RRP with the retailer still making a profit.

HM have made inroads and have stolen part of the pooch's 'single engined' market, and have done so with new models rather than the same old stuff. There are a lot of HM models sitting with the wholesalers and my Spockometer indicates that more and more table is being allocated to the HM boxes. We have seen an element of discounting which must be to shift a bit more stock, it should never be as savage as the pooch as the prices were not that high to start. Going back to the first statement, if they can hold this stock without the bean counter intervention then hopefully the market should stabilise (given the passing of the predator range)

The naval arm of HM have given us some superb stuff and have shown how it should be done. It is the one area left where collectors talk about having the whole collection and there is a slobber element to the forthcoming F8 I havent seen in collectors for a long time.

As to the pooch, it's funny how the threads always come back to talk about a particular model - yes there's going to be all the stuff that is still waiting to come in but whether they go forward big time with this again and thats ranges and catalogues, I feel they will have to be far more selective in what they do produce, not stepping on other manus toes and only concentrating on doing what they do best. However the market share is not theirs anymore, the cost of materials, fuel, labour and the fact we are tightening our belts may give the likes of Harry Potter or whatever the latest craze is, the casting vote in going forward big time. If they are clever I think the marketplace could have another five years left in it.

[blue steel]

Good points Agent but with regard to the particular Corgi model or models, these are perhaps highlighted more as the iconic version or versions haven't been released or announced whereas HM and CW seem to do the crackers early in their release schedules

[kevjb64]

I can't give you chapter and verse on these figures, which are my own estimates bases on many tidbits of information and informed comments I encountered over the past five years, more or less. One statistic I noted recently came from Hobby Master's William, who stated that the production run on their first Kate was 2000, of which 50% were allocated to the U.S. I'm not using this as definitive proof of U.S. market share, however, if one considers the relative populations of the various countries along with their wealth, global outlook--or lack of same--as well as the number of online sellers doing business per country, the eBay listings and other factors, I find it hard to see how the U.S. could not rate as the most significant diecast warbird market, dwarfing most others.

Thanks for that , it is no doubt that HM have targeted the US market and initially this seems to be being successful as another post put it ' a golden age your side of the pond ' whilst the talk over here is more of people losing interest and selling up / stopping collecting .

[Agent X20]

The thing is that Hornby will not recommence production unless they can see that a whole raft of models can be produced and that the operation is financially viable... They aint gonna fire up the boilers cos some punter wants a red bull Sea Vixen... they are not that small a concern.

So for a manufacturer of their size, say three/four models a month, four new types a year and a span of say three years... they are gonna need some names to fill the gaps... the easy bit is naming the one model... or perhaps a couple... ands oh by the way.. these models need to sell out.. none of this dumping stuff...:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: ( and looking around at what is sitting where there is still a shed load of black boxes to get rid of..*

... now if they want to start with 1/200 civvies....

** and then you gotta persuade the retail punters to take em on board again - but thats another story...

[kevjb64]

Good read, this thread (since I last posted!:D )

As blue steel and a few others have said, there are still a number of types or variations of types that could/should be done...and which will no doubt be very popular with the nutters such as ourselves......

However......my concern, for any new tooling, from any manufacturer, is viability. We can see from the special commission run sizes, which are now down to around 500-600, that the days of 1,000+ run sizes are.....well, just not needed...and that's for fighters....for heavies it will be even less. Hence, to get the return they need for a new tooling......higher price or a lot of lower runs for less iconic aircraft (in the eyes of the general populace or occasional buyer). Higher price in today's economic climate....suicide. Numerous schemes......overkill, if you're not careful. Toughie.....

I think this is why I agree with Agent.....the last few years have been a golden age.....I think the number of new toolings will not be as high as previously.

If:rolleyes: a 1/32 190 is done the first one will no doubt be eagerly snapped up.....but how many will the manufacturer have to produce to make it worthwhile....and at what price. From a business plan/profit point of view 1/32, nice as they are, was one of Corgi's worst mistakes. It would be a shame if the scale caused problems for another manufacturer......people should be careful not to wish for things that could, although bringing short-term whoops of joy, ultimately cost the hobby a lot more.....

Good post TDM and I think it is way too early to judge how the newer boys are doing . There was initially no problem at the hound for a good few years as they could kept back their stock as they had good cashflow etc plus retailers also would buy stuff with a longer term view . It was only when the mountains got so large that the problems began . Ironically with the failure of Corgi USA to shift hardly any of its product . Currently it seems to be the other way round , stuff selling out in US is still on shop / warehouse shelves here .

Think the last sentence is already well underway . :(

[kevjb64]

Not for long I suspect given that (I think :unsure: ) William mentioned that the first two releases have been very successful and although some vendors have requested additional stock, it is not available as they've sold out their entire stock at wholesale level :cool:.

But that saying is the same as ' the manager has the total support of the board ' :rolleyes: ;) . Corgi's first couple of 1:32's were a success , totally sold out at hound HQ . trouble was the middlemen had brought them all and then found a load more coming thick and fast so had to dump and as TDM says compared to how many were brought into the country there is a fair few still out there of the SBD , 3 of the 2nd run have gone through ebay without attracting a bid ( albeit at close to SRP starting prices ) . Jury still out methinks . ;)

[kevjb64]

Can we expect Horngi to make good on Corgi's freeby promises?

I very much doubt legally they would have to , if you have 500 claims and 150 items its a no win situation . Best to draw a line under the old and start a new in my book .

[kevjb64]

Run was 1000 i believe for each and the third one so not too many yet still no shortage of them from what ive seen although the the previous post suggests otherwise :confused: ,maybe a dauntless not the best subject? i love the 1/32's but will only be getting the third one.

It appears to be regional ( as many other manufacturers have found ) . You would have no problem picking them up in UK and if you are prepared to pay SRP you may be trampled in the rush to sell to you .

[kevjb64]

The Dauntless situation is all about cash flow.. if they are being dribbled out and reaching full retail then that is no bad thing - an element of retained product, stock even, like the good old days in the sixties, and the model shop kept a stock of every Airfix kit. This market doesnt have to be about limited editions, launched on Moday and all gone by Thursday... The rot, if it comes is seeing that model at 25% of RRP with the retailer still making a profit.

HM have made inroads and have stolen part of the pooch's 'single engined' market, and have done so with new models rather than the same old stuff. There are a lot of HM models sitting with the wholesalers and my Spockometer indicates that more and more table is being allocated to the HM boxes. We have seen an element of discounting which must be to shift a bit more stock, it should never be as savage as the pooch as the prices were not that high to start. Going back to the first statement, if they can hold this stock without the bean counter intervention then hopefully the market should stabilise (given the passing of the predator range)

The naval arm of HM have given us some superb stuff and have shown how it should be done. It is the one area left where collectors talk about having the whole collection and there is a slobber element to the forthcoming F8 I havent seen in collectors for a long time.

As to the pooch, it's funny how the threads always come back to talk about a particular model - yes there's going to be all the stuff that is still waiting to come in but whether they go forward big time with this again and thats ranges and catalogues, I feel they will have to be far more selective in what they do produce, not stepping on other manus toes and only concentrating on doing what they do best. However the market share is not theirs anymore, the cost of materials, fuel, labour and the fact we are tightening our belts may give the likes of Harry Potter or whatever the latest craze is, the casting vote in going forward big time. If they are clever I think the marketplace could have another five years left in it.

Good post and it is as you say all about cashflow , beginning to hear the same things re : perhaps the beginning of genuine concerns about how much product certain companies putting into the market .

[Scottuk]

I very much doubt legally they would have to , if you have 500 claims and 150 items its a no win situation . Best to draw a line under the old and start a new in my book .


That's not how I work though. I'm happy enough with HM, CW, Gemini and older Corgi releases so if I've been conned by a company (even though they've been taken over) I don't see why I should give them another chance.

[kevjb64]

That's not how I work though. I'm happy enough with HM, CW, Gemini and older Corgi releases so if I've been conned by a company (even though they've been taken over) I don't see why I should give them another chance.

The comment was aimed at how Cornby should work not you , that obviously is your choice . :)

[Scottuk]

The comment was aimed at how Cornby should work not you , that obviously is your choice . :)


What I'm basically saying is that, morally speaking, the new company should honour the commitments of the old set up. If they don't then they are just as bad as the old set up and do not deserve to fair any better than Corgi did. Do they really want to launch a new venture by p!ssing off a section of it's customer base?

[tomswel1]

What I'm basically saying is that, morally speaking, the new company should honour the commitments of the old set up. If they don't then they are just as bad as the old set up and do not deserve to fair any better than Corgi did. Do they really want to launch a new venture by p!ssing off a section of it's customer base?
well we'll have to wait and see. I dont take too much notice of what they have said so far,words are easily said. The proof will be in the pudding whenever we might get the pudding:rolleyes: not that i'm that bothered to be honest HM have taken over and are supplying more than enough to keep the hobby going nicely.:) and i really dont need too many choices,am trying to slow it down a bit, theres enough models out there as it is.:LOL:

[kevjb64]

What I'm basically saying is that, morally speaking, the new company should honour the commitments of the old set up. If they don't then they are just as bad as the old set up and do not deserve to fair any better than Corgi did. Do they really want to launch a new venture by p!ssing off a section of it's customer base?

The thing is how do they sort this inherited problem . 150 have been produced with certificates qouting x of 150 , production slots are allocated way way in advance in the Far East and are as tight as you like currently , so doubt you would get a run this side of 2009 . I see no way round this inherited issue .

[Agent X20]

The fact was though, they quoted that 500 would be produced.

Now if thats 500 of all the models then theres one or two waiting for the others...

But I think you are right, this is water under the bridge and it is because of the way they acted on this, and other matters, that they are no longer trading and as such are Hornby responsible for the past crass actions...??

[blue steel]

On the other hand this would be a very positive start for the 'new' regime/company as a gesture of goodwill. Easier said than done I know and these things don't normally happen in this day and age but it was just a thought

[tomswel1]

On the other hand this would be a very positive start for the 'new' regime/company as a gesture of goodwill. Easier said than done I know and these things don't normally happen in this day and age but it was just a thought

We've heard they are working hard:unsure: but they would try to put that across anyway and there still has been no dates or any sign of dates for releases as far as i'm aware? so i wouldn't hold my breath too long.As i said before not really bothered anymore,Hm doing a grand job with plenty of new releases and better than corgi were anyway so they're not really needed or missed too much,with some release exceptions IMO(speaking for myself of course)

[Craig]

On the other hand this would be a very positive start for the 'new' regime/company as a gesture of goodwill. Easier said than done I know and these things don't normally happen in this day and age but it was just a thought

It would be if it waseasily rectifiable. Trouble is as Kev says I don't think it is. Probably best just to leave this as one of the best examples of what was wrong with the old management and move on! Does anyone really want a crappy silver Wessex anyway? What might be a nice gesture though is if all the customers who sent the tokens in are offered a model out of the current range (ie a standard Wessex, Vampire or biplane-sorry can't remember which one it was!). OK, it's not the "exclusive" model promised, but would think it would be taken as a nice gesture, and something that can be done with little harm to the companie's profits

[eismeer]

What might be a nice gesture though is if all the customers who sent the tokens in are offered a model out of the current range (ie a standard Wessex, Vampire or biplane-sorry can't remember which one it was!). OK, it's not the "exclusive" model promised, but would think it would be taken as a nice gesture, and something that can be done with little harm to the companie's profits

That is actually quite a good idea to appease the punters who sent in tokens.

Doesn't affect me as i never sent any in but i reckon the collectors who did would see it for what it is, a nice gesture to rectify Corgi's blunder.

Would also help them in getting rid of some of the excess stock they are gonna be forced to release soon as well rather than just dumping it:D

[kevjb64]

That is actually quite a good idea to appease the punters who sent in tokens.

Doesn't affect me as i never sent any in but i reckon the collectors who did would see it for what it is, a nice gesture to rectify Corgi's blunder.

Would also help them in getting rid of some of the excess stock they are gonna be forced to release soon as well rather than just dumping it:D

Same here , never participate in these free offers as they are always a pain in the **** IMPO but I think Craig has hit on a sensible , plausible idea here . :)