Windbreak And Steps At Airshows

[Marky_ncl]

Hi Guys,

Looking through the Fairford RIAT website I found this:-

"Tents, Gazebos, Stepladders & Windbreaks on the Showground
The erection of tents, Gazebos, Stepladders and windbreaks on the showground can often serve to block the view of other spectators and, effectively, spoil the experience of others. Consequently, it has been decided to prohibit the erection of these structures within 10 metres of the crowd line. The exclusion zone will be signed and any spectator who disregards this ban will be required to dismantle the offending structure and may be asked to leave the showground."

Hopefully more airshows will follow on with this idea.

Why someone on the front of the crowd line needs to be on top of a set of step ladders is totally beyond me!!

The future is looking up after all!! :D

Mark :)

[CFBC]

Thank ferking good! The number of tents without people in at Waddo was, well pi$$ing me off!

Sunday... Four tents in a circle with a massive circle of space in the middle!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[col]

Quite right too.

Was at Duxford one year standing near an abandoned cluster of deckchairs and a windbreak an hour or so before flying started. When a trio of Italians(?) sauntered up they did what us Brits wouldn't dare - made use of them. When the real owners turned up a bit later lots of waving of hands:D.

In my opinion, if you want a front row seat, claim it but then sit in it.

[Agent X20]

Yep tis an airshow, not a friggin beach.. no erections allowed.. what..!!!... not even for DC6's..???!!!:D :D :D

You do tend to get the most unsavoury types baggin' their space with windbreaks etc... (and then dont watch the show..):mad:

[Grim Reaper]

Do not envy anyone telling our friendly shark to take his windbreak down, he/she would probably end up as an appetiser :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[scott]

I don't see the problem , i was able to sit on a few chairs and have a little rest and read my program whilst there was a gap in the fun admittedly non were mine :LOL:

[TankBuster]

I dont see the problem with windbreaks & small beach shelters.

I always set up & couple of windbreaks with the chairs etc on the crowdline. Not to p*ss people off, but to give my children a place to remain inside & also get a better view of the aircraft. If I didn't do this people would push to the front knocking my children out of the way. I experienced this at DX a few years ago & ended up entering a heated dispute with some bloke, who soon bu**ered off once I had aired my views! I will continue to use a windbreak on the crowdline & I'm sure that many others will too! Once set up we stay there & enjoy the flying. The statics dont really interest me too much, as its the flying I go to see. I'm also sure that any requests at Fairford to not set up on the crowdline will probably be ignored by a lot of people for the very reasons I have given above!
Also my family was very grateful of the windbreak & tent set up in the wet weather at Waddo on Sunday!

Nothing p*sses me off more than some bloke with a camera pushing to the front of the crowdline blocking the views of children, just to take a few snaps of an aircraft.

TankBuster

[chally2]

Hasn't taken long has it.Most Fairford shows i went to were blighted by the equivelant of Crusader camps setting up on the crowd line, but it's the stepladders!!!
My last visit to Fairford was the departure day in 1997 when there was a huge squabble between a group of German's and our lot all jostling to get their VERY tall stepladders up........on the crowd line:eek:
Just one of the many reason's we have not been to Fairford since:(

[snafu]

To be honest what annoyed me at Waddo was some little herbert, encouraged by his Dad to shove in front of me and then climb up on the barriers obstructing me from taking shots of the Vulcan, which I'd patiently waited for since early in the morning. Fortunately he buggered off pretty quick. As he wouldn't have known a Vulcan from a Sopwith Camel I was pretty naffed off as the shows are a chance to enjoy my hobby of snapping aircraft....

[TankBuster]

My 10 year old son is very interested in aircraft & as a family we really enjoy going to the airshows. At Waddo we had our windbreak set up & next to us was a guy who was clearly after photo's as he had all the gear etc. He also set up a windbreak & fishing umbrella aswell! He did it to protect his camera gear from the rain & from it being trodden on. I have no problems at all with people trying to take photos, but I do feel that children should be given a bit of space on the crowdline if they want to see the aircraft. Admittedly some kids are little sods & dont give a monkeys about watching the displays, but some like my son are interested in the flying & do want to watch, but I often see a lot of adults selfishly push them out of the way to take photos which really annoys me!

As mentioned in my other post I had a nasty encounter with a bloke at Duxford a few years ago (pre-windbreak days) when we were sitting as a family in our chairs on the crowdline when this guy barged right into the middle of us to take a photo & knocked my son over onto the metal fence where he banged his head & cried his eyes out! The guy was not sorry at all, but soon dissapeared after I flipped & he nearly had his camera wrapped around his head. My wife was obviously very angry with this guy, but also embarrassed by my reaction. This completely spoiled the day for us, but especially for my son who was very shaken.
Ever since that day I have taken a windbreak & will continue to do so to claim a small area on the crowdline for us to sit in safely without blocking anyones view. We have never had any problems since & we have at some shows even asked other peoples kids to come to the front if they want to see. So if you see a windbreak on the crowdline please realise that many familes are just enjoying a day out and are not being inconsiderate or hogging the best spots, or intentionally blocking the views of others.


TankBuster

[Marky_ncl]

My 10 year old son is very interested in aircraft & as a family we really enjoy going to the airshows. At Waddo we had our windbreak set up & next to us was a guy who was clearly after photo's as he had all the gear etc. He also set up a windbreak & fishing umbrella aswell! He did it to protect his camera gear from the rain & from it being trodden on. I have no problems at all with people trying to take photos, but I do feel that children should be given a bit of space on the crowdline if they want to see the aircraft. Admittedly some kids are little sods & dont give a monkeys about watching the displays, but some like my son are interested in the flying & do want to watch, but I often see a lot of adults selfishly push them out of the way to take photos which really annoys me!

As mentioned in my other post I had a nasty encounter with a bloke at Duxford a few years ago (pre-windbreak days) when we were sitting as a family in our chairs on the crowdline when this guy barged right into the middle of us to take a photo & knocked my son over onto the metal fence where he banged his head & cried his eyes out! The guy was not sorry at all, but soon dissapeared after I flipped & he nearly had his camera wrapped around his head. My wife was obviously very angry with this guy, but also embarrassed by my reaction. This completely spoiled the day for us, but especially for my son who was very shaken.
Ever since that day I have taken a windbreak & will continue to do so to claim a small area on the crowdline for us to sit in safely without blocking anyones view. We have never had any problems since & we have at some shows even asked other peoples kids to come to the front if they want to see. So if you see a windbreak on the crowdline please realise that many familes are just enjoying a day out and are not being inconsiderate or hogging the best spots, or intentionally blocking the views of others.


TankBuster

I have nothing against families who intend sitting behind the windbreak or small fishing tent who intend to sit and watch the display. What annoys me is when you see a windbreak set up with chairs in it and its just left for hours until they decide to return after having kept the space for most of the day.

The other thing that irritates me most is why does someone who is standing at the front of the crowd line need a set of 6 foot steps to stand on??? Not only are they a menace on the crowd line but when your wandering around the static and keep getting hit with them as they swing them around without a care in the world! Me... I would ban step ladders from being allowed into airshows...

TankBuster.. Just out of interest. Can I ask what you would do if you were asked to take the Windbreak down or move it back as per what apparently people are going to be asked to do at Fairford??

Mark :)

[Craig]

I can see you point on this Tankbuster, but the problem is windbreaks and the like have been banned as a result of them being misused. They were alowed whilever people were using them sensibly, but this is no longer happening. People are fencing of their own little "enclosure" on the flightline and they are generally much larger areas than they need. In the space occupied by two windbreaks and a tent a good 20 people could stand. Common sense has ceased to prevail and these structures have got bigger and more complex. People at Waddo were not just taking beach shelters, but tents as well and the little complexes they are creating are getting bigger and bigger. Hardly sporting. As for the ladders, why someone needs a stepladder to see over a 4 ft fence is beyond me and they should have been banned from the flightline years ago. Purely selfishness. As for your suggestion about children, I do find myself agreeing with you. Children are by their nature small, so even if they're in front of you you can easily shoot over their head, so long as they're not scrambling over the barriers. Once again, common sense. Just a pity some (and this isn't aimed at you Tankbuster) can't exercise it...

[Red 2]

Was in a couple of chalets at Waddo and amazed that in one, stepladders appaeared at the front despite there being very few people in the area. I think this stepladder selfishness is sometimes a status thing. Maybe the size of the stepladder is somehow inversely related to the size of....;)

Just to say our three chairs AND BROLLIES:rolleyes: :( packed ready for Legends!

[CFBC]

I think this stepladder selfishness is sometimes a status thing. Maybe the size of the stepladder is somehow inversely related to the size of....;)

A little like some of those lenses then R2 and ownership of multi-camera's! :LOL: :LOL:

Opps, sense a "fin" around ere....... (play jaws music)

[Leviathan]

Chaps,

When you make a significant effort to attend an Airshow, getting up at 3am in the morning and travelling for 3 and 1/2 hours to get there, I don't see any problem with standing behind a windbreak! As for obstructing views, I don't really think this is obscuring the view of most people - step ladders are another matter! I think these are a little selfish if used on, or near the crowdline. If you are positioned behind the front rows of people, I don't see a problem, although why you would want to do a bit of DIY at your favourite Airshow is beyond me!;)

My reason for using the windbreak is to safely house thousands of pounds worth of photographic equipment and to safely 'swing a lens'! (without risk of injury to people standing next to me!) You do need some room to do this, so I and my colleagues go to this extra personal effort each Airshow. Personally, I think this is much more polite than getting to the show late and pushing past everyone to get to the front!

I don't think it is selfish at all.....I am 6ft 3ins and almost as wide:( I think this poses much more of an obstruction than my little windbreak!

Anyway, what a daft thread....I can't believe we are even talking about this, when there are so many serious things going on in the Country at the moment!

Windbreaks Rule!;)



Regards




Leviathan

[TankBuster]

I will be taking my windbreak to the crowdline at Fairford & I have emailed the RIAT organisers & told them so, pointing out that their 10 metre exclusion zone could have the opposite effect of what they intend it to, mainly pointing out that the windbreaks offer some protection against people knocking small children out of the way.

In Phantom language I say Phuck em!!! I will set it up on the crowdline away from the bulk of the crowds & unless I can see that it is clearly causing an obstruction It will stay up. There will be thousands of people there & there is no way they can enforce such a stupid idea!
I want to enjoy a day out with the family & if RIAT organisers want to spoil it for families who do the same as me then they are fools!

TankBuster

[Leviathan]

TankBuster,

I am with you on this one! I hope you and your family have a great weekend!

I honestly cannot see any problem with using a windbreak - on the grand scale of things, this is not the most heinous crime committed by a member of the general public!


Regards



Leviathan

[SSRST]

I have to say banning or creating zones for windbreaks is a stupid idea.

Again like Lev I need the space to take photographs and so put up a small beach shelter. This gives me room for myself and a tripod and also in the past I have asked other people if they would like to use the leftover space.

The main problem I have though, is that most airshows are solo missions. If I want to look around the stalls then it will be impossible to get a good spot on the crowdline, dispite getting out of bed at 3am for a 4 hour drive and being through the gates almost first.

Unless I get the spot I want it would take out all enjoyment and I would stop going, I hope it doesnt come to this!

[Seafire47]

This subject comes up time and time again. Here's what I posted back in 2006 and since then I've seen nothing to change my mind:

I've always believed that if someone gets to the front row ahead of me they're entitled to have a better view. However, if they subsequently walk away, they've forfeited that right and the space is up for grabs.

I was there on Friday and if I'd cordoned off a section of the front row, would that entitle me to turn up just before the flying started on Saturday and expect everyone to let me through? I don't think so.

When I was young and single and more fanatical about airshows I accepted that there was a price to pay if I wanted a front row spot. I'd get there as early as possible, race around the statics and then head for the crowd line and then I'd stay there until the show was over or I was ready to leave. I accepted that if I left my spot before then someone else would take it and that would be my hard luck. I accepted that that meant no toilet visits so I avoided drinking too much, knowing that I'd be dehydrated by the end of the show. I accepted that if it rained I'd have to put on wet weather gear and put up with it.

The first time I encountered the "land-grab" phenomenon was at the fantastic Abingdon Battle of Britain 50th anniversary show in 1990. Traffic getting in was very heavy despite an early arrival and after a quick dash around the statics spaces on the crowd line were limited. I managed to squeeze in alongside an empty enclosure that someone had set up with a wind-break. After standing there for about 10 minutes I was approached by an enormous biker carrying a camera bag who glared at the enclosure and asked "Is this yours?!" When I assured him that it wasn't he said "Well s*d that. It's just taking the pi55!", pulled up the stake at one end and moved it to give himself room to stand at the barrier. Everyone around cheered and there was no sympathy for the occupants when they turned up after the flying had started and found they no longer had the space to spread themselves out.

This isn't an attempt to be provocative, just to stimulate debate. Imagine you go to the Post Office just before Christmas and find there's a huge queue. After a couple of minutes the guy in front walks off. Twenty minutes later just as you're about to be served he turns up clutching the shopping he's done in the mean time and says "I was in front of you." Do you say "Yes of course - after you." or do you suggest he rejoins at the back of the queue? Personally I can't see the difference between this and trying to reserve a front-row spot at an airshow.

I've no problem if I get to the front and find it's full of people who got there before me. I do have a problem when it's just their furniture and they've bu66ered off. As I said in my first post, when you walk away you forfeit your place and shouldn't be surprised if there's someone else there when you get back.

I'm afraid the "I need the extra space" argument holds no water. If you've paid the same to get in as everyone else, why should you be entitled to twice as much space. When your camera gear buys a ticket it can have its own spot on the crowd line.:)

[Red Leader]

I don't have any form views about the windbreaks, however the Step ladders REALLY do anoy me. They seem to be getting more frequent and larger. Surely there's a health and safety angle on em!! It's gotta be just a matter of time before some selfisf bloke comes crashing down off the tiop of his lofty step ladder height and injures himself and worst of all some poor child that happens to be close by. Common sense to me would say just ban the stepladders. They are a safety hazzard and incredibly selfish in terms of blocking other's views!!

[Agent X20]

Mind you the bl*ody cost of airshows these days.. that sort of money you should be provided with a seat .. proper Grandstand..:D with topless noobile waitresses providing sootable refreshments......:LOL: :cool: :LOL: I bet you can get that at Reno...

....matron.. its time fer the medication...!!!

[CFBC]

Mind you the bl*ody cost of airshows these days.. that sort of money you should be provided with a seat .. proper Grandstand..:D with topless noobile waitresses providing sootable refreshments......:LOL: :cool: :LOL: I bet you can get that at Reno...


Have you been driking "Carlsberg" Agent? Probably?? :LOL:

[Agent X20]

Have you been driking "Carlsberg" Agent? Probably?? :LOL:.. my drikings a darn site better than your tipping..!!!:D :D :D

If Carlsberg did do airshows.... nice thought...... it is so much more civil when yer get a bit of hospitality.. airshows are rather a poor relation I suppose to what's on offer elsewhere... :D

[johnnyboy]

This all started because of RIAT but my gripe with them has always been that most of bl**dy flight line at their shows are taken up with hospitality tents :mad: The average Joe public have to make do with one end or other of the runway you dont have a hope in hell of getting near the centre line

[TankBuster]

I too dont like the step ladders, as they are a hazard amongst a crowd of people. But windbreakers rule!!

I can understand the frustrations with people who take up a huge space & then wander off and dont return for hours, but I'm not one of them. I stay put to watch the flying displays & only wander off to use the toilets.
Statics I'm not really interested in too much & if we do look at them it is after we have packed everything in the car after the flying has finished. Walking through the statics kills a bit of time instead of getting snarled up in the traffic. I have to admit that I am never in much of a rush to leave the airshows & am usually amongst the last handful of cars to leave.

TankBuster

[CFBC]

But windbreakers rule!!


I have no issue with windbreaks. I have bl**dy tents and ladders though!

Good post Seafire.... :)

[minter]

with topless noobile waitresses

no jugs at legends then,wobbyling or flying

[Spitful]

If you go to Reno. LOTS of jugs wobbyling. Few or none flying.:)

[davidwford]

Step ladders are a definate no-no.:mad: So many times have I wanted to accidentally knock into some one a step ladder, I don't know how I manage to restrain myself.;)

Don't really have a problem with windbrakes, as long they as they don't take the p*ss and fence of something the size of the isle of whight in the process. Only reason I would use one is to protect my son from the elements, don't really buy the 'need room to take photographs' excuse. I've got quite a big bugger, lens that is, and have never found it a problem.

[Craig]

Don't really have a problem with windbrakes, as long they as they don't take the p*ss and fence of something the size of the isle of whight in the process.
Problem is though this is what is happening. Don't think anyone would have a problem if they were kept small and were big enough for the number of people occupying them, but 10 ft long private nclosures seem to be getting more and more common. If they'd been used sensibly I strongly doubt RIAT would be taking this step...

[Red 2]

Think the windbreak problem is not Lev's modest shark sized pyjamam striped affair but the monster length efforts that are used to create huge 'sterile zones' occupied by a very few. You just have to holiday in Cornwall to see very large areas of sand occupied by supersize family windbreaks to see where they've come from.

No, my wrath is reserved for the selfish use of stepladders at the front of a crowdline and those that think it fair to barge to the front. Come the revolution comrades....

[scott]

I too dont like the step ladders, as they are a hazard amongst a crowd of people.
TankBuster

That is right and under The Working At Height Regulations 2005
-They need to avoid work at height where
they can
-Use work equipment or other measures to prevent falls where they
cannot avoid working at height and where they cannot eliminate the risk of a fall, use work equipment or other measures to minimise the distance
and consequences of a fall should one occur

so every one should use these
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n144/scottq2654/Aluminium_Tower_3m_advert_1205.jpg

[dilligafocau]

I personally favour these....

http://www.industrialequipmentsales.co.uk/images/scissor-lift.jpg

[Red Leader]

Yes that's a new angle....while we're all thinking outside the box how about "STILTS!"

[dilligafocau]

As far as Im concerned, airshow attendees show be allowed to break wind whenever the need arises, if that raises a stink.........well so be it :LOL:

[no4mkit]

with topless noobile waitresses providing sootable refreshments......:LOL: :cool: :LOL: I bet you can get that at Reno...


Not topless, but there was some rather attractive birds in leather and feathers working the booth below my grandstand seat. Funny you say that Agent, cause my comment at the time was "only at Reno..."

Not sure I can post pics though.... :D

[CFBC]

I personally favour these....

http://www.industrialequipmentsales.co.uk/images/scissor-lift.jpg

Wow, :cool I like that idea... Perhaps we could all "chip in" and take one to the next airshow for Forum use.... ;) :)

[johnnyboy]

Not so sure about that CFBC just think of those horror pic's looking up your shorts that could start to circulate it just to scary to think about:eek:

[dilligafocau]

Wow, :cool I like that idea... Perhaps we could all "chip in" and take one to the next airshow for Forum use.... ;) :)

Might be a "shorts-free-zone' up there if you take into consideration the angle of elevation :unsure:

[dilligafocau]

Not so sure about that CFBC just think of those horror pic's looking up your shorts that could start to circulate it just to scary to think about:eek:


curses.....got in before me JB :LOL:

[CFBC]

Might be a "shorts-free-zone' up there if you take into consideration the angle of elevation :unsure:

Trust you lot to think of that! :wacko: